Trademe Alternative for NZ based sellers

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376 posts

Ultimate Geek

#1071873 21-Jun-2014 20:44

mattwnz:
KiwiTim:

If you have no useful opinion on the original topic that I posted here, I suggest you find something else more useful to do with your day.

You are the one who went well off topic with your statements on car parking etc.
Actually I gave you a lot of useful advice. You were saying you don't want to use trademe because you are considered a trader, and you didn't want to have to pay taxes as it wouldn't make it worth your while. However as I and others have also previously said, whatever trading site you use, you will be considered a trader if you are buying for the intention of selling for a profit. As I previously said, build any taxes you have to pay into your prices, and that way you will still be making a healthy margin. From what you said, you were making nearly 100% profit which is a very healthy profit margin. Sell more, and you also increase your earnings. I see people are discussing this very topic on trademe at http://www.trademe.co.nz/Community/MessageBoard/Messages.aspx?id=1440196&topic=46 and that maybe a better place for you to ask questions on this trademe change.

Actually, you were the one who originally went off topic by talking about taxation. This post was not talking about taxation. I will cherish your pearls of wisdom.

logo

646 posts

Ultimate Geek

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#1071896 21-Jun-2014 22:21

KiwiTim:
logo: to the OP: what's wrong with Trademe?

Nothing really wrong with it. The fees are more than I prefer, and I would have to become a "Trader" if I continue with them. I sell the same item, repeatedly. I sell one $55 item approximately every 2-3 weeks. Out of that I make about $25 profit. I don't wish to be identified as a trader when I only make $500 per year out of it, but under Trade Me terms I fit the Trader criteria.

Do you not want to be identified as a trader from an IRD aspect? The tax obligation has been ther prior to the new laws coming into effect - I'm not getting into a discussion about it.

I don't think the intrade status is going to assist the IRD in any great way - they already had their means beforehand. I think the main point of Trademe's intrade status is for consumer protection - if you are intrade then you have certain obligations to your customers with regards to disclosures, warranties etc...

mattwnz

20155 posts

Uber Geek

#1071900 21-Jun-2014 22:30

KiwiTim:

Actually, you were the one who originally went off topic by talking about taxation. This post was not talking about taxation. I will cherish your pearls of wisdom.

That is incorrect, you initially said you didn't want to be identified as a in trade trader, and you are onliy making a small amount per year. If it isn't for tax reasons, then why else wouldn't you want to be identified as one? Or maybe you don't want to provide CGA protection, which you would have to if you were intrade? I believe they are the main too downsides.

Trade me is a great place to sell things I have found, unmatched by other NZ trading sites.

mattwnz

20155 posts

Uber Geek

#1071901 21-Jun-2014 22:35

logo:
Do you not want to be identified as a trader from an IRD aspect? The tax obligation has been ther prior to the new laws coming into effect - I'm not getting into a discussion about it.

I don't think the intrade status is going to assist the IRD in any great way - they already had their means beforehand. I think the main point of Trademe's intrade status is for consumer protection - if you are intrade then you have certain obligations to your customers with regards to disclosures, warranties etc...

Yes I had heard that the 'in trade' thing was more about consumer protection, and the CGA. eg someone buying from an auction would now be covered by the CGA. But I think it would make it a lot easier for the IRD too. From what I understand it would basically mean any of the transactions done by intrade members should be taxable.

jnimmo

1097 posts

Uber Geek

#1071913 21-Jun-2014 23:06

I signed up to Wheedle today after reading this, was going to list some stuff on there but then forgot and just listed on TradeMe instead. Keen to try it though, TradeMe is too expensive

KiwiTim

376 posts

Ultimate Geek

#1071929 21-Jun-2014 23:57

mattwnz:
KiwiTim:

Actually, you were the one who originally went off topic by talking about taxation. This post was not talking about taxation. I will cherish your pearls of wisdom.

That is incorrect, you initially said you didn't want to be identified as a in trade trader, and you are onliy making a small amount per year. If it isn't for tax reasons, then why else wouldn't you want to be identified as one? Or maybe you don't want to provide CGA protection, which you would have to if you were intrade? I believe they are the main too downsides.

Trade me is a great place to sell things I have found, unmatched by other NZ trading sites.

It is correct, you were the first person here to use the word tax, were you not?

Unless you have religiously adhered to payment of all local and national government fees and taxes throughout your life, then it is hypocritical to complain about tax avoidance for trivial amounts. Fair enough if you have managed to be totally legitimate in that regard, but I would be very surprised if you can say you have strictly paid all your dues to councils and governments, no matter how small the amount. As I said earlier, people often buy goods overseas to avoid paying GST. Have you done that? If you have, then I don't think you have any reason to be self righteous.

My example of not paying for a council car park is also legitimate. Have you ever parked somewhere and avoided paying for the parking space because you thought you could get away with it for a short amount of time? The end result is the council does not get the payment they demand. This is just an example of how people avoid payment of a small fee or tax that is demanded by local or national governments. There are plenty of other areas in life where most people avoid paying a small fee if the think they can get away with it. If it's a very small amount, it does not bother most people. If you have never done any of these types of behaviours, then you can look down your nose at the rest of humanity. But if you have done anything like this before, then you have no right to depreciate others.

These types of minor transgressions are equivalent to not paying a trivial amount of tax.

I absolutely agree with the government taxing traders that are selling significant amounts of product, as these people are making a livelihood from it. Applying these rules to someone who make a few hundred dollars a year from sales is ridiculous.

Now, I can tell you enjoy having the last word on a topic, so I am graciously going to leave the floor open to you. I have better uses for my time.

DaveDog

336 posts

Ultimate Geek

#1071980 22-Jun-2014 08:58

I wonder if the OP also considers his activities too insignificant to offer purchasers protection under the CGA?

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ArcticSilver

729 posts

Ultimate Geek

#1071982 22-Jun-2014 09:20

KiwiTim,

What you need to consider is this.

Lets say I started a business, selling car parts. How am I to compete if there are lots of small traders, like yourself undercutting me because you are not paying tax? Is that fair? I don't think so.

Not to mention, there could be a whole industry of small traders, like yourself not paying tax, how is this good for our society?

"Unless you have religiously adhered to payment of all local and national government fees and taxes throughout your life, then it is hypocritical to complain about tax avoidance for trivial amounts."

I have, myself, so I am not being hypocritical. You should not assume that of anyone. Also, don't forget, two wrongs don't make a right!

I believe the others have been fair in their comments, you are selling for a profit, it is now law, if it does not mean that much to you then maybe you should not be in business selling these items?

nickrout

219 posts

Master Geek

#1072056 22-Jun-2014 14:12

If you have to identify yourself as a trader on trademe, then you have to on wheedle, or your own website, or advertising in the classifieds in the newspaper, or wherever.

Kyanar

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#1072330 23-Jun-2014 08:03

I see a lot of people talking about taxes, which is... well, a little irrelevant. At maybe $500 a year if what the OP says is correct, this is well under the $60,000 threshold for registering for GST. See: http://www.ird.govt.nz/gst/gst-registering/register-who/

Now, this does still place an obligation on the OP to meet Consumer Guarantees Act and Fair Trading Act obligations and I would hope the OP isn't trying to "wheedle" out of those. (And shame on anyone who is). But taxes are kind of a moot point when they aren't applicable in this circumstance anyway.

MikeB4

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#1072372 23-Jun-2014 09:22

Kyanar: I see a lot of people talking about taxes, which is... well, a little irrelevant. At maybe $500 a year if what the OP says is correct, this is well under the $60,000 threshold for registering for GST. See: http://www.ird.govt.nz/gst/gst-registering/register-who/

Now, this does still place an obligation on the OP to meet Consumer Guarantees Act and Fair Trading Act obligations and I would hope the OP isn't trying to "wheedle" out of those. (And shame on anyone who is). But taxes are kind of a moot point when they aren't applicable in this circumstance anyway.

GST not applicable, earnings related tax is applcable

Kyanar

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#1072476 23-Jun-2014 11:21

KiwiNZ:
Kyanar: I see a lot of people talking about taxes, which is... well, a little irrelevant. At maybe $500 a year if what the OP says is correct, this is well under the $60,000 threshold for registering for GST. See: http://www.ird.govt.nz/gst/gst-registering/register-who/

Now, this does still place an obligation on the OP to meet Consumer Guarantees Act and Fair Trading Act obligations and I would hope the OP isn't trying to "wheedle" out of those. (And shame on anyone who is). But taxes are kind of a moot point when they aren't applicable in this circumstance anyway.

GST not applicable, earnings related tax is applcable

Still irrelevant, since income tax applies to this scenario whether the OP is "in trade" or not. So it remains a red herring.

mattwnz

20155 posts

Uber Geek

#1072520 23-Jun-2014 12:04

Kyanar:
KiwiNZ:
Kyanar: I see a lot of people talking about taxes, which is... well, a little irrelevant. At maybe $500 a year if what the OP says is correct, this is well under the $60,000 threshold for registering for GST. See: http://www.ird.govt.nz/gst/gst-registering/register-who/

Now, this does still place an obligation on the OP to meet Consumer Guarantees Act and Fair Trading Act obligations and I would hope the OP isn't trying to "wheedle" out of those. (And shame on anyone who is). But taxes are kind of a moot point when they aren't applicable in this circumstance anyway.

GST not applicable, earnings related tax is applcable

Still irrelevant, since income tax applies to this scenario whether the OP is "in trade" or not. So it remains a red herring.

Yes but it depends if you declare those earnings from trade me or not. If in trade then you would need to.

Kyanar

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#1073100 24-Jun-2014 08:59

mattwnz:
Kyanar:
KiwiNZ:
Kyanar: I see a lot of people talking about taxes, which is... well, a little irrelevant. At maybe $500 a year if what the OP says is correct, this is well under the $60,000 threshold for registering for GST. See: http://www.ird.govt.nz/gst/gst-registering/register-who/

Now, this does still place an obligation on the OP to meet Consumer Guarantees Act and Fair Trading Act obligations and I would hope the OP isn't trying to "wheedle" out of those. (And shame on anyone who is). But taxes are kind of a moot point when they aren't applicable in this circumstance anyway.

GST not applicable, earnings related tax is applcable

Still irrelevant, since income tax applies to this scenario whether the OP is "in trade" or not. So it remains a red herring.

Yes but it depends if you declare those earnings from trade me or not. If in trade then you would need to.

If not in trade you still need to. What's your point? Your income tax obligations are completely disconnected from your "in trade" status so all this tax talk is completely besides the point.

MikeB4

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#1073114 24-Jun-2014 09:21

Kyanar:
mattwnz:
Kyanar:
KiwiNZ:
Kyanar: I see a lot of people talking about taxes, which is... well, a little irrelevant. At maybe $500 a year if what the OP says is correct, this is well under the $60,000 threshold for registering for GST. See: http://www.ird.govt.nz/gst/gst-registering/register-who/

Now, this does still place an obligation on the OP to meet Consumer Guarantees Act and Fair Trading Act obligations and I would hope the OP isn't trying to "wheedle" out of those. (And shame on anyone who is). But taxes are kind of a moot point when they aren't applicable in this circumstance anyway.

GST not applicable, earnings related tax is applcable

Still irrelevant, since income tax applies to this scenario whether the OP is "in trade" or not. So it remains a red herring.

Yes but it depends if you declare those earnings from trade me or not. If in trade then you would need to.

If not in trade you still need to. What's your point? Your income tax obligations are completely disconnected from your "in trade" status so all this tax talk is completely besides the point.

If you are selling the odd thing you have purchased etc and no longer need there is no tax liability on that, however if you are buying/making items for the purpose to resell there is a tax liability under Tax legislation, also there is an obligation under consumer law therefore the listing as 'In Trade' is linked to both Tax and Consumer law and is relevant here.

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