Jury service selectors becoming very aggressive

Forums › Off topic › Jury service selectors becoming very aggressive

1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | ... | 14

5288 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 2159

#1076298 28-Jun-2014 22:12

Sideface:
eracode:
scuwp: Or simply don't turn up. Most don't and rarely does anything come of it.

Sounds like good advice to me under the circs. Seems OP has no real alternative - a wee bit of civil disobedience.

"A wee bit of civil disobedience" can be expensive: "If the registrar hasn’t excused you from jury service and you don’t attend, you can be fined up to $1000."
see: http://www.justice.govt.nz/services/access-to-justice/jury-service-1/just-been-summoned/if-you-cant-attend

$1000 is pocket change compared to what I'd lose. My contract could be cancelled due to the fact they need 100% reliability. They are a foreign client so don't care about NZ jury system.

JimmyH

2898 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 1554

#1076314 28-Jun-2014 23:07

One of the things that really irritates me is the Judges and Lawyers who so sanctimoniously intone about how vital jury service is to the justice system, and there should be heavy penalties for those who don't do their duty. Of course, they themselves don't. Judges and Lawyers holding a current practising certificate are exempt from jury service.

Perhaps if they practised what they preached I would be a little less grumpy about having my day and contracting relationship with my employer randomly disrupted, while the people who impose the burden are happily at no risk whatsoever of being inconvenienced by having to actually serve themselves.

andrewNZ

2487 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 1461
Inactive user

#1076318 28-Jun-2014 23:27

JimmyH: One of the things that really irritates me is the Judges and Lawyers who so sanctimoniously intone about how vital jury service is to the justice system, and there should be heavy penalties for those who don't do their duty. Of course, they themselves don't. Judges and Lawyers holding a current practising certificate are exempt from jury service.

Perhaps if they practised what they preached I would be a little less grumpy about having my day and contracting relationship with my employer randomly disrupted, while the people who impose the burden are happily at no risk whatsoever of being inconvenienced by having to actually serve themselves.

Lawyers and judges are also a vital part of the legal system. They do it every day, you are only asked to do it once a year tops.

One day, you might end up facing a jury through no fault of your own, and you'll hope like hell that you get some jurors with half a brain.

mattwnz

20515 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 4795

#1076320 28-Jun-2014 23:39

andrewNZ:
Lawyers and judges are also a vital part of the legal system. They do it every day, you are only asked to do it once a year tops.

One day, you might end up facing a jury through no fault of your own, and you'll hope like hell that you get some jurors with half a brain.

It 's their job/profession though, and they get paid very handsomely. PLus it is obviously their choice, they don't have to do it if they don't want to. Jurors however don't have the choice, and it isn't their professional, it is a duty. However I am a firm believer in the jury system, and peoples civil duty to do it, if they are able to. However I think there needs to be less jurors on trials, and they should be paid better, as some people have to face hardship when they go on a jury. I don't know why jurors aren't paid better.

BruceHamilton

77 posts

Master Geek
+1 received by user: 18

#1076323 29-Jun-2014 00:00

The original poster still has the formal option of appealing to the Judge who the jury would be working with. I'd suggest obtaining a letter from your client specifically addressed to the court about the present situation ( not a form letter ), and the OP should also provide a brief explanation why continuous availability is essential, and perhaps how you usually cover similar situations, eg holidays etc., and why that option is not feasible.

Also, with regard to random selection, the problem is that some electorate catchments are used by several courts, and may also have accumulated a large number of exempted voters ( eg lots of criminals or previous jurors ), and thus any eligible registered voters have a greater chance of being called.

Bung

6733 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 2926

Subscriber

#1076327 29-Jun-2014 00:27

The trouble with getting the client to support the request for exemption is that it will remind them how fragile the support arrangement is. The OP could find himself replaced earlier than he planned.

Lego

Shop now for Lego sets and other gifts (affiliate link).

eracode

Smpl Mnmlst
9333 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 6203

ID Verified

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#1076351 29-Jun-2014 03:06

DjShadow:
eracode: I would love to know exactly how they select jury candidates. I am 62 and have been summoned once - in 1974. Some much younger people I worked with were summoned several times over the last 5 - 10 years.

Electoral Roll is where they draw names from, they have summoned me 4 times so far I think incl once when I was in the stand-down period from last time I served.

I know the names come from the Electoral Roll but what I don't understand is how some people never get called (or once in 40 years in my case) and others get called almost every year. Doesn't quite sound like the Laws of Probability are in play here.

Sometimes I just sit and think. Other times I just sit.

eracode

Smpl Mnmlst
9333 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 6203

ID Verified

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#1076352 29-Jun-2014 03:25

sdav: I don't get the trend for not wanting to do jury service. Sure, there may be times when people really aren't able to do it, but normally I find most people just try to get out of it for no good reason. It's like people think paying their tax is all they have to do to contribute to society (I'm not directing this at the op or anyone in this thread).

Totally agree with this - doing jury service is an important civic duty which everyone should take seriously and I don't support wholesale avoidance.

On the other hand, I did support the OP just not turning up - which is contradictory to my first view. The thing is, there is a stated MOJ process for appealing selection, the OP has pleaded his case and they rejected it, which does not seem fair. He appears to have a good reason given his current circs and he says that when these circs change, he will be happy to serve. So although it goes against my grain, civil disobedience might be an option for him this time. Difficult situation overall.

Sometimes I just sit and think. Other times I just sit.

bfginger

1330 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 191

#1076355 29-Jun-2014 06:59

surfisup1000:
scuwp: Get in touch with them and plead your case? Or simply don't turn up. Most don't and rarely does anything come of it.

I guess I'm too law abiding!!

I already pleaded my case .They rejected .

But, I'm going to get a letter from my contracting company and see if that helps.

I'm always on - call, even on holiday so this is bad.

It isn't good enough to plead your case - you must have evidence to back up your case and have a case they agree with or they will either reject your application or just send you a new summons a few weeks later.

surfisup1000

5288 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 2159

#1076360 29-Jun-2014 07:30

BruceHamilton: The original poster still has the formal option of appealing to the Judge who the jury would be working with. I'd suggest obtaining a letter from your client specifically addressed to the court about the present situation ( not a form letter ), and the OP should also provide a brief explanation why continuous availability is essential, and perhaps how you usually cover similar situations, eg holidays etc., and why that option is not feasible.

Also, with regard to random selection, the problem is that some electorate catchments are used by several courts, and may also have accumulated a large number of exempted voters ( eg lots of criminals or previous jurors ), and thus any eligible registered voters have a greater chance of being called.

Thanks, this is what I will do.

surfisup1000

5288 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 2159

#1076363 29-Jun-2014 07:45

Bung: The trouble with getting the client to support the request for exemption is that it will remind them how fragile the support arrangement is. The OP could find himself replaced earlier than he planned.

My client should have trained some others as they are exposed if I cannot work for some reason. But, thats the way it is. And, I've been doing this 10 years now without issue.

I've always given the same reason for not doing jury service and it has been accepted.

HP

Shop now for HP laptops and other devices (affiliate link).

BruceHamilton

77 posts

Master Geek
+1 received by user: 18

#1076384 29-Jun-2014 08:34

IANAL, but you should use Google ( or a friendly lawyer ) to ensure that your new appeal to the Judge covers all of the points he/she has to consider for jury exemption. Your inconvenience doesn't count, but any disproportionate adverse effects on others may do ( specific contract breaches , employees, subcontractors, family ). An exemption now requires evidence, and previous excuses may no longer be effective.

I would also consider using the available option of an oral submission directly to the Judge, rather than sending your new appeal to the Registrar and asking them to forward it to the Judge, as the Registrar may add information justifying their original decision. Ensure that you have the letter from your client and other documents ready to give to the Judge for consideration. Be brief, but well-prepared. I suppose you could try appearing in tattered clothes along with multiple starving children to support etc. etc....

SaltyNZ

8865 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 9545

Trusted

2degrees

Lifetime subscriber

#1076397 29-Jun-2014 09:40

andrewNZ:
Lawyers and judges are also a vital part of the legal system. They do it every day...

Because that's their job. I don't call up High Court judges or Vulcan Lane barristers and expect them to come down and help me test out the latest ultra-urgent project that 2degrees has going, even if it affects a million customers.

One day, you might end up facing a jury through no fault of your own, and you'll hope like hell that you get some jurors with half a brain.

I agree with this though. But the fact remains that the selection procedure really doesn't appear very random. I've been on the electoral roll here since 2002 and have never been selected. (Never selected in Aus before I moved, either). But as far as I can tell, the people I know who have been selected seem to cop it multiple times -- over and over.

iPad Pro 11" + iPhone 15 Pro Max + 2degrees 4tw!

These comments are my own and do not represent the opinions of 2degrees.

Kyanar

4089 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 1684

ID Verified

Trusted

#1076401 29-Jun-2014 10:00

Another problem with the jury system lies in the employment laws - although your employer is required to hold your job for you while you're on jury service, did you know that under the Employment Relations Act and Holidays Act they are not required to pay you while you're on jury service? Even to a salaried employee, you can find yourself financially destroyed by jury service.

MikeB4

MikeB4
18775 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 12766

ID Verified

Trusted

Subscriber

#1076403 29-Jun-2014 10:07

I have never had a problem being excused Jury service. Each time I just fill in the form and with a week I hear back that I have been excused.

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | ... | 14