Changing of our flag , Yes or No.

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#1308969 20-May-2015 23:27

roobarb: Think of it as the logo of NZ Limited.

If a national flag is farcical, then so are trademarks, corporate logos and all other recognisable symbols of property and identity.

National Anthems on the other hand...

The national Anthem will be next. Have to admit that it is pretty dreary, although not as bad as some countries.

SirHumphreyAppleby

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#1309017 21-May-2015 07:04

mattwnz:
roobarb: Think of it as the logo of NZ Limited.

If a national flag is farcical, then so are trademarks, corporate logos and all other recognisable symbols of property and identity.

National Anthems on the other hand...

The national Anthem will be next. Have to admit that it is pretty dreary, although not as bad as some countries.

Which national anthem are you referring to? We have two.

Almost every single version of "God Defend New Zealand" has been dreary. The only exception I can think of is Alan Slater's arrangement, which was used at the start and end of broadcast on TV One for a few years. If not for that, I wouldn't have a clue what the words to the second and fifth English verse were. Written by an Irishman raised in Australia. Set to music by an Australian, winning a competition also judged by Australians. Still, very much our national anthem, so I don't want to see that changing either.

Jaxson

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#1309041 21-May-2015 08:09

MikeB4:

This one seems quite divisive.

I'm not entirely sure why the stars should stay, given it's the southern cross and technically any country in the southern hemisphere can see/is under those.

This whole debate seems to focus on us having the Union Jack in there and looking too much like Australia.
If we're not prepared to leave the Commonwealth then surely taking the reference to the motherland off the flag is only a half as$ed measure?

roobarb: I suggest changing it when NZ becomes a republic, and not before.
If you want it to unite the Kiwis, it needs to be a Silver Fern on a black background because the All Blacks is the only thing we can all agree on.
However the silver fern is a meaningless symbol to the majority of the planet.
If you want it to be instantly recognisable around the world, then it needs to be a big bold Kiwi, much like the patch worn by the NZ military when overseas, akin to the roundal used by the RNZAF.

What he said basically.

What I am disappointed in is the military link, with people saying we fought for the flag.
That's getting a bit blurred and emotional really.
We've gone to war as a country several times now, and the reasons rarely include to protect the flag.

jeffnz:
interesting result but I think people use the "fighting for the flag" too much and I don't believe they did. I've never seen action but from my 22 years involved in military the flags the guys cherished were their regimental colours. From the old soldiers I talked to they fought for their mates and their country, not a flag, even more so after the Great War.

What he said basically.

I like the idea of the silver fern on black, with no stars. It's basic, but it's easily identified.
That's just my take.
One really does need to wonder why we're spending money on this at all though, but where the money gets spent is politics, and that is all we really need to say to explain it unfortunately.

Jaxson

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#1309044 21-May-2015 08:18

roobarb:
If a national flag is farcical, then so are trademarks, corporate logos and all other recognisable symbols of property and identity.

National Anthems on the other hand...

First word of the Anthem mentions God.
http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/education/68716325/atheists-and-the-devout-join-together-in-protest-over-school-bible-lessons
Just saying...

D1023319

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#1309051 21-May-2015 08:27

Stay with the current flag.

Batman

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#1309053 21-May-2015 08:28

national anthem or not, the Queen prays to God at every official ceremony I've watched. and God save the Queen is our other official national anthem.

On the other hand ... I'm not sure if I want the flag changed. The first question is - is there anything wrong with the flag. If yes then what, and what a new flag would change that. If no, then don't think about changing it.

But I understand this is a democracy, and the people has a say. Or do they?

Batman

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#1309054 21-May-2015 08:30

I have also seen prayers at most American official and sports events, heck even V8 supercars has a chaplain's prayer before the Gold Coast race

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MikeB4

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#1309070 21-May-2015 08:48

SirHumphreyAppleby:
mattwnz:
roobarb: Think of it as the logo of NZ Limited.

If a national flag is farcical, then so are trademarks, corporate logos and all other recognisable symbols of property and identity.

National Anthems on the other hand...

The national Anthem will be next. Have to admit that it is pretty dreary, although not as bad as some countries.

Which national anthem are you referring to? We have two.

Almost every single version of "God Defend New Zealand" has been dreary. The only exception I can think of is Alan Slater's arrangement, which was used at the start and end of broadcast on TV One for a few years. If not for that, I wouldn't have a clue what the words to the second and fifth English verse were. Written by an Irishman raised in Australia. Set to music by an Australian, winning a competition also judged by Australians. Still, very much our national anthem, so I don't want to see that changing either.

Well yes and no, both the Poet the writer of the tune resided in NZ. The former in Dunedin and the later in Lawrence.

MikeB4

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#1309073 21-May-2015 08:53

Lias: A: Choose flag then referendum is a total waste of money.
B: Polls are consistently showing 80-90% are against a change.
C: We should absolutely keep it. https://rsa.org.nz/Community/FightforOurFlag

Those who served and serve did so not for the flag but for the right of those it represents to be free to discuss and decide these matters.

SirHumphreyAppleby

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#1309076 21-May-2015 09:00

MikeB4: Well yes and no, both the Poet the writer of the tune resided in NZ. The former in Dunedin and the later in Lawrence.

It's too late to edit my post to clarify that for people who may have assumed otherwise, but yes, both Bracken and Woods resided in New Zealand.

DravidDavid

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#1309077 21-May-2015 09:03

I think the Australian flag looks too close to the New Zealand flag. They should change theirs.

This is such a stupid idea. Why can't this wait until the next election or referendum? Why the urgency all of a sudden? We've had the flag for decades and now all of a sudden it can't wait a few more years until there is a more suitable time to answer the question?

I don't hear the word distraction a lot in my family circles, but even my parents (hard core government loving national supporters) seem to think something more important is going on and the flag situation is to divert attention.

Rikkitic

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#1309080 21-May-2015 09:06

I think almost any other flag would be an improvement, but I also think almost any other issue should have higher priority.

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cyberhub

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#1309081 21-May-2015 09:08

MikeB4: I have not decided yet, it is good that the issue is being discussed and the opportunity to contribute to the decision. Two options I do like are ...

I am not too concerned about the flag but I have to say that I do like this one.

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MikeB4

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#1309082 21-May-2015 09:09

DravidDavid: I think the Australian flag looks too close to the New Zealand flag. They should change theirs.

This is such a stupid idea. Why can't this wait until the next election or referendum? Why the urgency all of a sudden? We've had the flag for decades and now all of a sudden it can't wait a few more years until there is a more suitable time to answer the question?

I don't hear the word distraction a lot in my family circles, but even my parents (hard core government loving national supporters) seem to think something more important is going on and the flag situation is to divert attention.

I agree the speed is not needed but I can also see reasons why to do it between General elections and to keep the time frame as short as possible. Doing it at an election could dominate the issues and hide other just as important issues affecting
an outcome of an election. Keeping the process as short as sensibly possible lessens the obvious divisive nature of the debate and keeps discussion focused before descends into accusation, conspiracy and truck loads of rubbish.

langers1972

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#1309083 21-May-2015 09:10

Like many I couldn't care less about the flag, what bothers me is the grotesque waste of money. With an estimated 1 in 4 kiwi kids living in poverty is $26m spent on a glorified colouring competition a valid use of taxpayers money? Not to mention creaking hospitals, schools etc etc

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