Street Harassment - I'm looking at you Max Key

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#1659810 28-Oct-2016 14:04

jonb:

I don't know if it's always been like this or only noticing it now. My teenage daughter no longer wants to go running as on every occasion she gets honked or shouted at. This is in a high socio-economic part of the North Shore to boot - Max Key types or just anyone thinks it's acceptable behaviour?

I find it pretty sad that this is still happening to girls. I thought we'd grown up from that but apparently not. I would get your daughter along to some self defence classes so that she can feel safe on the streets and learn how to deal with these yobs. When they get some booze inside them they may not stop at verbal abuse, and then you want her to feel confident she can look after herself. Sadly, the other option is to take all females off the streets and leave the yobs to roam around finding other people to abuse. Might also be worth raising with the police and local schools if they are still at school (your daughter might know).

Might also be worth raising it with the police and local schools if they are still at school (your daughter might know). Local shopkeepers may also know who they are.

These sorts of behaviours happen in clusters, which is why Max Key's comments show what sad little human being he really is.

Hope she's ok.

networkn

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#1659822 28-Oct-2016 14:13

jmh:

jonb:

I don't know if it's always been like this or only noticing it now. My teenage daughter no longer wants to go running as on every occasion she gets honked or shouted at. This is in a high socio-economic part of the North Shore to boot - Max Key types or just anyone thinks it's acceptable behaviour?

I find it pretty sad that this is still happening to girls. I thought we'd grown up from that but apparently not. I would get your daughter along to some self defence classes so that she can feel safe on the streets and learn how to deal with these yobs. When they get some booze inside them they may not stop at verbal abuse, and then you want her to feel confident she can look after herself. Sadly, the other option is to take all females off the streets and leave the yobs to roam around finding other people to abuse. Might also be worth raising with the police and local schools if they are still at school (your daughter might know).

Might also be worth raising it with the police and local schools if they are still at school (your daughter might know). Local shopkeepers may also know who they are.

These sorts of behaviours happen in clusters, which is why Max Key's comments show what sad little human being he really is.

Hope she's ok.

There is a fair bit of evidence to support the theory that self-defense does little except provide people with an over-developed sense of their own safety.

I have personally seen a few situations where even with warning women (and in fact men too) can be made to drop their guard by their assailant making themselves as large as possible and yelling very loudly. The fright factor and the fact that on the whole women are physically less strong than men makes it more important that they understand the best thing to do where possible is run in well lit areas, ideally with someone else, or better still a dog, and ignore ALL contact from other people entirely. If something happens, make a LOT of noise IMMEDIATELY and early whilst making a bee-line to the nearest populated area.

My wife used to like going running, alone at night, but it always scared the snot out of me, one of the reasons we got a German Shepherd was so she was safe.

networkn

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#1659824 28-Oct-2016 14:15

Fred99:

networkn:

I fairly recently was in an Australian Bar watching an AB's game, dressed clearly as an AB's fan. I was invited to sit with a group of Australian Supporters, who offered to buy me drinks, and were in very good form and very good sports when we spanked them. About 20 minutes in one of the other supporter groups came over to make some comments and the manager was over in a flash suggesting behaviour of that nature wasn't acceptable and if they were going to continue they could leave. An apology was promptly offered and the night was very pleasant.

I would have to say in my recent travels, both to Australia and other countries where I have encountered Australian men, I have found them much better behaved than Kiwi men and UK men (Some of the worst behaviour I've experienced from men recently were almost without exception, English.

You clearly weren't drinking in the Rooty Hill Imperial Tavern.

Yeah, you are right, I've never been there, but neither would I go there, nor any place like it, with women :) Maybe it shouldn't be like that, but I probably wouldn't take the risk.

frankv

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#1659828 28-Oct-2016 14:18

networkn:

frankv:

networkn:

Yeah, I can imagine that would be unpleasant for her, I do think this type of behavior (catcalling etc) is not acceptable.

So, it's not acceptable, but we should all just ignore it? Because it's JK's son? Because he's famous?

Yes. We should ignore it, mostly because he has apologized and said he won't do it again.

One more time, if this was some kid on the street would we be having this conversation? Nope.

If we ignore it, then it's tacit acceptance. Yet, in your own words, it is not acceptable.

If this was some kid on the street, and I had some way to improve his behaviour (e.g. I knew his parents), then I'd make an effort to get the message to him that it was unacceptable. That's essentially what's happened here, except that it's gone via the media.

So, I agree that now the subject should be dropped. But it shouldn't have been ignored.

jmh

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#1659832 28-Oct-2016 14:23

networkn:

jmh:

jonb:

I don't know if it's always been like this or only noticing it now. My teenage daughter no longer wants to go running as on every occasion she gets honked or shouted at. This is in a high socio-economic part of the North Shore to boot - Max Key types or just anyone thinks it's acceptable behaviour?

I find it pretty sad that this is still happening to girls. I thought we'd grown up from that but apparently not. I would get your daughter along to some self defence classes so that she can feel safe on the streets and learn how to deal with these yobs. When they get some booze inside them they may not stop at verbal abuse, and then you want her to feel confident she can look after herself. Sadly, the other option is to take all females off the streets and leave the yobs to roam around finding other people to abuse. Might also be worth raising with the police and local schools if they are still at school (your daughter might know).

Might also be worth raising it with the police and local schools if they are still at school (your daughter might know). Local shopkeepers may also know who they are.

These sorts of behaviours happen in clusters, which is why Max Key's comments show what sad little human being he really is.

Hope she's ok.

There is a fair bit of evidence to support the theory that self-defense does little except provide people with an over-developed sense of their own safety.

I have personally seen a few situations where even with warning women (and in fact men too) can be made to drop their guard by their assailant making themselves as large as possible and yelling very loudly. The fright factor and the fact that on the whole women are physically less strong than men makes it more important that they understand the best thing to do where possible is run in well lit areas, ideally with someone else, or better still a dog, and ignore ALL contact from other people entirely. If something happens, make a LOT of noise IMMEDIATELY and early whilst making a bee-line to the nearest populated area.

My wife used to like going running, alone at night, but it always scared the snot out of me, one of the reasons we got a German Shepherd was so she was safe.

In my mind, self defence meant getting the right advice based on experience. If the best thing to do is run away, so be it. Setting up a fight is probably not a good idea, but when he's already got you pinned to the ground it would be good to have some ideas on what to do next. Like the dog idea, but not a solution for everyone.

networkn

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#1659835 28-Oct-2016 14:30

jmh:

In my mind, self defence meant getting the right advice based on experience. If the best thing to do is run away, so be it. Setting up a fight is probably not a good idea, but when he's already got you pinned to the ground it would be good to have some ideas on what to do next. Like the dog idea, but not a solution for everyone.

I used to hang out with a number of black belt+ martial arts guys. Even those guys run from a fight if it's possible. Seriously. People think fights are like what they are in the movies where 1 person attacks at a time, or that every punch is telegraphed and easily combated. In reality once someone closes the gap in a fight, your options are very limited.

If you are on the ground with a man on you, unless you are exceptionally strong, you are in a pretty grim situation, there isn't likely much you would be able to do. The entire idea is to not be in that situation in the first place.

We have a woman who likes to run, on our street, she sometimes comes and borrows our dog.

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#1659840 28-Oct-2016 14:39

jonb:
I don't know if it's always been like this or only noticing it now. My teenage daughter no longer wants to go running as on every occasion she gets honked or shouted at. This is in a high socio-economic part of the North Shore to boot - Max Key types or just anyone thinks it's acceptable behaviour?

I think its always been a factor, but I do think it's become a whole lot worse.

Increasing population and traffic makes a lot of people inclined this way feel a bit more anonymous about doing it. Also a whole lot less people use the street to get around so there tend to be less people on the street and the people who are walking, running or cycling can stick out a bit in comparison. Ie; because the ratio of vehicle to foot transport has changed a lot.

Actually I think it is necessary for all of us to start taking this behaviour a lot more seriously and actually start reporting it. It is no doubt a small number of people responsible for a large chunk of it and it would be well worth them getting a call at the least from the police to explain the offence they are committing.

Fred99

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#1659841 28-Oct-2016 14:39

networkn:

Fred99:

You clearly weren't drinking in the Rooty Hill Imperial Tavern.

Yeah, you are right, I've never been there, but neither would I go there, nor any place like it, with women :) Maybe it shouldn't be like that, but I probably wouldn't take the risk.

I wasn't either in that case, not sure if I've nominated the correct Rooty Hill pub I did go to once, at least to the bottle store to get some beers, on a hot Friday night. The carpark was full of people lying on the ground, some were leaking blood and groaning. Broken glass all over the place. Nobody seemed to care - I thought something awful must have happened, a riot or a bomb or something, but no police, nothing in the news later. Just another night at the local, apparently. Not a rugby union pub that one - of that I'd be fairly certain.

My local pubs were generally pretty good - there were about 30 or more within walking distance of our front door. I don't think a word to the manager would have resolved hassle of women issue though, not when the pub was busy, the place was noisy, superficially very friendly. Not very "offensive" perhaps in isolation, but when it seems like every yobbo loser who's had a couple of schooners want to try his luck with attractive women, very tiresome to the women I expect - hence the very effective reaction by our friend, when she'd been on the receiving end of numerous veiled invitations to have sex with half-tanked yobbos, she took matters into her own hands.

sen8or

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#1659843 28-Oct-2016 14:39

Fred99:

networkn:

Fred99:

Mocking abject fools who behave like the PM's son is a step in the right direction.

Except that if joking isn't allowed, mocking most definitely shouldn't be allowed :)

The most efficient method I've seen to get yobos to STFU and stop hassling women, I witnessed in a pub in Sydney. My wife and a friend were getting a bit of unwanted attention, there was stuff all I could do about it, the only option seemed to be to leave and go elsewhere. Our friend sorted it - she stripped naked in an instant, stood on our table, pirouetted while screaming obscenities at yobbos, threw clothes back on and sat down. We had a very pleasant evening, yobbos behaved themselves, several women who'd witnessed the display came over to offer congratulations and commendations. I don't think this would work in NZ, neither should women ever need to go to such extremes.

I'm all for as many woman as possible trying this method...... (except for the screaming obscenities part)

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#1659857 28-Oct-2016 14:50

sen8or:

I'm all for as many woman as possible trying this method...... (except for the screaming obscenities part)

It wasn't that obscene. The place went a bit quiet before she spoke, the message was along the lines of "look you stupid *****s - this is what you've wanted to see - now run off to the toilet to have a good **** - and wash your hands."

Hope that doesn't upset mods here. It's no worse than what Key junior said, IMO.

Zippity

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#1659879 28-Oct-2016 15:25

The poor ignorant little sod.

Doesn't he know that the plural of "woman" is "women" - pronounced "wimen".

I see that sen8or is in the same category.......

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#1659891 28-Oct-2016 15:33

Fred99:

It wasn't that obscene. The place went a bit quiet before she spoke, the message was along the lines of "look you stupid *****s - this is what you've wanted to see - now run off to the toilet to have a good **** - and wash your hands."

Hope that doesn't upset mods here. It's no worse than what Key junior said, IMO.

I'd suggest it was considerably worse. I suspect there were plenty in the bar who weren't hassling her, but were still exposed to her, and to her foul language, unlike Keys comments which were directed to people who were actually riding the bikes.

Fred99

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#1659906 28-Oct-2016 16:08

networkn:

Fred99:

It wasn't that obscene. The place went a bit quiet before she spoke, the message was along the lines of "look you stupid *****s - this is what you've wanted to see - now run off to the toilet to have a good **** - and wash your hands."

Hope that doesn't upset mods here. It's no worse than what Key junior said, IMO.

I'd suggest it was considerably worse. I suspect there were plenty in the bar who weren't hassling her, but were still exposed to her, and to her foul language, unlike Keys comments which were directed to people who were actually riding the bikes.

Why do you suggest it was worse? Unlike you - I was there! You're using your imagination to argue against my first-hand testimony!

I'm not aware that any patron of the bar, nor staff who witnessed it, were perturbed. Not sure I have the language used verbatim. but close enough. Nudity doesn't offend me in the slightest, it's what we are all the time after all, under our clothes. I'm a little surprised when people don't adhere to social mores around clothing, but never offended. Those who hadn't hassled her might have been surprised, the yobbos got the message well I thought - stopped them in their tracks. As I said, I don't recommend trying this in a NZ pub - and it would take quite a character to get away with it - she was certainly a character - and she did get away with it - with a hell of a lot of style.

Key junior on the other hand was just lame, uninspired, and deliberately offensive - without valid reason. Like a vandal against humanity in general - picking on people to achieve nothing - except trying to score points with his loser crowd of other spoiled brats.

Fred99

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#1659908 28-Oct-2016 16:12

Zippity:

The poor ignorant little sod.

Doesn't he know that the plural of "woman" is "women" - pronounced "wimen"

No elocution lessons in the Key household, for a couple of generations apparently.

dickytim

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#1659910 28-Oct-2016 16:15

So you are using insults to degrade someone for using insults ...

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