SPOILERS - Starwars VIII The Last Jedi

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#1922291 20-Dec-2017 08:06

Jaxson:

I felt this move shat on Luke, in favour of setting up a new platform for new characters. Luke saved Vader and then hid away after some nephew problems. Didn’t seem true to the character.

According to a number of things I've read, initially Mark Hamill hated the script, but was eventually convinced and now fully embraces what Rian Johnson had Luke become. So if Luke's OK with it, I think we should be too. :)

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Inphinity

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#1922394 20-Dec-2017 10:32

SaltyNZ:

According to a number of things I've read, initially Mark Hamill hated the script, but was eventually convinced and now fully embraces what Rian Johnson had Luke become. So if Luke's OK with it, I think we should be too. :)

Can be pretty hard to differentiate between genuinely changing his mind, and some Mouse-eared overlords reminding him of his contractual obligations on press tours. Did you see his face after the premiere? Looked horrified to me.

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#1922398 20-Dec-2017 10:35

Geektastic:

freitasm:

Did anyone else noticed the boy at the end moving the broom with the force before he started sweeping the floor?

Notice it I did.

From what I can gather it's intended to break the force story away from the Skywalker lineage.

Force enabled people could come from anywhere, so it's much easier to write future stories if you don't have to link heros back to Luke etc.

Speaking of which, what about Leia and Maz Kanatas bits?!

Leia never uses force powers anywhere, but full blown pulls herself back in from freezing/no pressure space. If she's that powerful, get a light sabre and get in the fight.

Maz references the code breaker being good at everything. Yuck, that crashed me out of the movie for a second.

And speaking of code breaker, lets go somewhere to meet the only one in the galaxy who can do this, stuff that up and just happen to meet another master code cracker passing by.

There's so much of this stuff that to enjoy it, you just have to switch off and let it happen.

I enjoyed the movie, and I'll go again, but it's a bit of a slap in the face new direction, after the buttering up of giving us the fan offering that is force awakens/new hope take 2 previously.

Admiral Holdo (Laura Dern) was cool. As was that epic Rey / Kylo battle scene. Kept the interest for a long time, which is always pretty impressive.

Jaxson

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#1922400 20-Dec-2017 10:38

Geektastic:

I'm dreading the inevitable remake of the original....

You mean Force Awakens?

kobiak

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#1922416 20-Dec-2017 11:26

I'm not the biggest fan of SW, I just like the action movies :)

My initial thoughts that new movie is meh-average, but I enjoyed. I don't see real story behind the movie now, yes there will be another one or two depending on the success. But no hype in the future.

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Jaxson

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#1922423 20-Dec-2017 11:35

kobiak:

I don't see real story behind the movie now, yes there will be another one or two

If they wanted to break with tradition, I don't see any reason why this now has to be a trilogy?

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Paul1977

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#1922455 20-Dec-2017 11:55

Another big problem is that while it's all good and well to go against fan expectations and try something different, many of those expectations were explicitly set up in The Force Awakens. It is quite clear this isn't the sequel they had in mind when they made The Force Awakens.

If Luke never wanted to be found, why did he leave a map (which was pretty much the entire plot of the last movie)?
If Luke had rejected being a Jedi, why was he standing regally on a mountain side in full Jedi regalia when Rey arrived?
In fact, why did Luke go to the first Jedi Temple at all if that was the case?

I'm all for turning things on their heads and subverting expectations, but it has to be done well and has to make sense.

kobiak

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#1922456 20-Dec-2017 11:58

Jaxson:

If they wanted to break with tradition, I don't see any reason why this now has to be a trilogy?

it won't, it will be "The Avengers" like money generator. There always be another Jedi to fight master Sith and his apprentice in the next movie.

I've nothing against James Bond franchise, and I would not mind SW be alike. Just good 2-3 hrs of action, thriller, and humour.

So meh, no hype. No another generation to grow with the story line, unless script writers come up with something good :(

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Inphinity

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#1922509 20-Dec-2017 12:52

Paul1977:

Another big problem is that while it's all good and well to go against fan expectations and try something different, many of those expectations were explicitly set up in The Force Awakens. It is quite clear this isn't the sequel they had in mind when they made The Force Awakens.

If Luke never wanted to be found, why did he leave a map (which was pretty much the entire plot of the last movie)?
If Luke had rejected being a Jedi, why was he standing regally on a mountain side in full Jedi regalia when Rey arrived?
In fact, why did Luke go to the first Jedi Temple at all if that was the case?
I'm all for turning things on their heads and subverting expectations, but it has to be done well and has to make sense.

This is probably one of my biggest frustrations with the movie - much of what it ignored or discarded was put in place as recently as TFA, rather than being throwbacks to the previous trilogies. So was the plan all along to spend so much time in TFA raising questions that would ultimately be discarded? Or is it all a ruse and Ep9 will come along and complete those plot arcs? If so, what was the point in 8 at all?

And I get the idea to separate some things form the Skywalker story - but we already have that, and have seen that. The main Saga has always been touted as the Skywalker story. We know that not everyone of importance has to be related to them, but they are the central focus of the Saga storyline. Yes, sure, Kylo carries Skywalker blood, and he's still in it. But he's the only interesting character left that actually impacts the plot.

Rey in 8 was just a vehicle to move other characters, she didn't really do anything herself.

Likewise Snoke. He just connected Rey and Kylo - and died for it. Presumably there'll be some sort of Snoke novel that we'll get to buy to find out his deal, just like Phasma. Got to spin-off merchandise after all.

Poe seems to have been completely discredited as having any competence behind shooting things in an X-Wing, and he was more detrimental than beneficial in this movie.

Chewie has been completely sidelined. Is he even still hanging around? With Han gone, perhaps he'll go back to his family on Kashyyyk?

Leia.. well.. for obvious reasons her part in 9 is likely to be very limited if it exists at all. Sad.

Luke - why kill him in 8 if you're going to use him much in 9? So clearly he's out of most of it. I felt his character was poorly handled in 8, and we are not given any real reason for his significant shift in his personality and mindset. More spin-off backstories to buy maybe.

I found it interesting that most of the best scenes (at least, the ones I enjoyed most) in TLJ, were pulled almost directly from earlier movies. Rey and the Dark Side pit. Yoda and Luke's interaction. The Crait assault. R2 convincing Luke to help. Even the Throne room scene felt like an extension of the Throne Room scene in RotJ.

Meanwhile, most of the 'new' scenes were questionable, with unexplained or simply broken plot. The First Order command are shown repeatedly to be incompetent, so how did they overcome the Republic in a matter of days?

SaltyNZ

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#1922548 20-Dec-2017 13:45

Inphinity:

Poe seems to have been completely discredited as having any competence behind shooting things in an X-Wing, and he was more detrimental than beneficial in this movie.

I think he'll step up in the next one. Holdo sacrificed herself, and Leia obviously won't have much of a role. But right at the very end we see Poe make a leadership decision that doesn't involve 'jumping in an X-Wing to blow something up'. He takes a breath, pays attention, and runs out the back way to save the day rather than getting everyone needlessly killed in a grand but fruitless gesture.

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Jaxson

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#1922574 20-Dec-2017 14:24

Paul1977:

while it's all good and well to go against fan expectations and try something different, many of those expectations were explicitly set up in The Force Awakens.

This, so much this.

Don't turn around and tell us the parents don't matter in TLJ, when you made a big deal about the mystery in TFA.

You could have told us the parents were dead and 'no one' (can't help but think faceless man from GoT) right at the start, but you didn't. You created the mystery and debate and then crushed it in this movie. It may well come back again in the next, but the whole tease them and then take it away and minimise it in the next is plain dumb.

On that note too, Luke asks who she is, and why she specifically was the one to come, and Rey says she's scared and doesn't know how to control the force/that sort of thing.

Luke offers a few initial training sessions, see's she is powerful, freaks out and then she splits and he dies. How is Rey considered anywhere near a Jedi now and who is going to actually train her?

Guess these are questions for the next, but I'm not sensing the cliffhanger to make me eager to catch the next one.

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Paul1977

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#1922580 20-Dec-2017 14:44

Jaxson: How is Rey considered anywhere near a Jedi now and who is going to actually train her?

@Jaxson When Finn got the blanket for Rose at the end on the Millennium Falcon, in the drawer were all the old Jedi texts.

EDIT: Presumably she took them after her fight with Luke, and force ghost Yoda would have known. Kind of makes a mockery of his lightning strike on the ancient tree!

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#1922585 20-Dec-2017 14:55

Nothing in the show makes any sense. Doesn't make sense from a Jedi religion point of view, from the continuation from TFA point of view eg snokes shows up and IMMEDIATELY dies, Rey has no parents, General Leia does nothing other than the fact that she can fly, her next in line commander does nothing and then the first thing she does is kills herself, basically everybody either does nothing, or dies, or both.

Suspense - kept at 8/10 (except that it came to nothing at the end, making it finish at 3/10)

Drama - 5/10

Action - 4/10

Plot - 3/10

CGI - 9/10

Believable - 2/10

Acting - Hucks and Kylo Ren, are they some high school production prima donna wannabe or something? Which gives it a comedy score of 5/10.

Jaxson

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#1922593 20-Dec-2017 15:02

Paul1977:

Jaxson: How is Rey considered anywhere near a Jedi now and who is going to actually train her?

@Jaxson When Finn got the blanket for Rose at the end on the Millennium Falcon, in the drawer were all the old Jedi texts.

EDIT: Presumably she took them after her fight with Luke, and force ghost Yoda would have known. Kind of makes a mockery of his lightning strike on the ancient tree!

Yeah agreed, so Jedi training by extramural studies then.

Re Yoda though, it's actually a bit of a laugh moment, as he says Rey has all she needs already and doesn't let Luke see that she's taken them.

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#1922670 20-Dec-2017 16:35

Two things deeply annoyed me. The starship running our of "fuel" (with many other vessels sitting in docking bays all presumably containing "fuel") and the fact that in the age of having seemingly instantaneous communication over vast distances Admiral Holdo had to remain behind to be a pilot... what - no remote piloting capability from one of the escaping vessels?

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