Tiananmen Square

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Ultimate Geek
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#2251116 4-Jun-2019 13:38

I look forward to the National Party releasing a statement condemning the Tienanmen Square Massacre.

Or are they what Lenin would describe as controlled opposition?

Obsequious hypocrite

ObidiahSlope

260 posts

Ultimate Geek
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#2251121 4-Jun-2019 13:49

Why do one party states and despots react so badly to dissent? I think this quote from Winston Churchill will help us understand.

“You see these dictators on their pedestals, surrounded by the bayonets of their soldiers and the truncheons of their police ... yet in their hearts there is unspoken fear. They are afraid of words and thoughts: words spoken abroad, thoughts stirring at home -- all the more powerful because forbidden -- terrify them. A little mouse of thought appears in the room, and even the mightiest potentates are thrown into panic.”

Obsequious hypocrite

hhan

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#2251359 4-Jun-2019 17:33

I’m from China but born after this happened. As soon as I feel desperate about the country, I tried to escape. Now I am a student in NZ for just a little over one year, I can feel the vibe of freedom, and I am on my way to immigration. I have a dream that one day China could become a democracy country, people could love the country instead of the single party, I would say that is the happiness of my life.

For those who are not clear about what happened in Tiananmen Square. Please take a look at this link.

https://youtu.be/IsAdxcu2Bu4

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Rikkitic

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#2251535 4-Jun-2019 20:45

The Drum on ABC is broadcasting a special on Tiananmen right now. Well worth watching and will be available On Demand.

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ranjayryan

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#2251754 5-Jun-2019 09:14

@hhan

Keep going, don't stop. Good luck.

surfisup1000

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#2251786 5-Jun-2019 09:35

hhan:

I’m from China but born after this happened. As soon as I feel desperate about the country, I tried to escape. Now I am a student in NZ for just a little over one year, I can feel the vibe of freedom, and I am on my way to immigration. I have a dream that one day China could become a democracy country, people could love the country instead of the single party, I would say that is the happiness of my life.

One thing is for sure, communist china will not last forever. It is just a matter of time.

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freitasm

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#2251789 5-Jun-2019 09:42

surfisup1000:

One thing is for sure, communist china will not last forever. It is just a matter of time.

Interesting comment, because what brought down the USSR was the economy - they couldn't scale enough to compete in the modern world.

It looks like China is doing well in that front.

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#2251803 5-Jun-2019 09:46

freitasm:

surfisup1000:

One thing is for sure, communist china will not last forever. It is just a matter of time.

Interesting comment, because what brought down the USSR was the economy - they couldn't scale enough to compete in the modern world.

It looks like China is doing well in that front.

In addition, there's a lot of water to go under that bridge before that 'matter of time' is reached (if it is), especially given how China is currently going about extending its power and influence.

Journeyman

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#2251854 5-Jun-2019 10:10

Tank Man didn't even know there was a protest was going on. He was just trying to get home with his groceries and some bloody bugger has a column of tanks in the way! Tank Man is all "I'm walkin' here! I'm walking' here!"

surfisup1000

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#2251897 5-Jun-2019 10:59

Study the history of China, and it has always been about change. They should add Socialism always fails, to the inevitable things of life (death and taxes).

Mao Tse Tung, was one of the worlds greatest ever leaders. The way he unified China (which was really a bunch of regions ruled by warlords, who themselves were loosely ruled by the nationalists) was masterful.

Anyway, as I said , it is just a matter of time. Nations rise and fall, China is strong now, but it's political foundation (socialism) is fragile.

Fred99

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#2252005 5-Jun-2019 12:08

surfisup1000:

Study the history of China, and it has always been about change. They should add Socialism always fails, to the inevitable things of life (death and taxes).

Mao Tse Tung, was one of the worlds greatest ever leaders. The way he unified China (which was really a bunch of regions ruled by warlords, who themselves were loosely ruled by the nationalists) was masterful.

Anyway, as I said , it is just a matter of time. Nations rise and fall, China is strong now, but it's political foundation (socialism) is fragile.

This is off-topic, but what you're saying needs correcting:

China isn't "socialist" - it's an authoritarian communist dictatorship. As was the USSR - also never socialist.

Socialism is NOT incompatible with democracy.

The right wing argument that ~~socialism~~ communism always fails, conveniently forgets the fact that true democracy hasn't been around very long at all.

If "how long it lasts" was to be a measure of success, then anarchy and tribalism are probably the most successful systems throughout human history.

To get things back on topic, if you look at China before "Tank Man" and after, then for the Chinese people (and for world peace), then are things better or worse? My pick is that things are considerably better for them and us - there may be geopolitical dispute and disagreement (Taiwan etc) and persecution (Falun Gong, Uirgher etc), but there aren't tens of millions of deaths from famine such as a direct result of Mao's "cultural revolution", masses of ordinary people sent for reeducation because they held capitalist values etc. or didn't want to spend their days plucking blades of grass You can visit China, Chinese people can visit here, they're our (NZ) largest trading partner. AFAIK China aren't involved in any proxy wars.

I'd like to see a "Tank Man" resist Saudi Authoritarianism. Second thoughts - nope - it would be a snuff movie. Ask yourself why / rationalise the anti-Chinese sentiment in the US, yet excuses for atrocities and praise from the top for ruthless murdering dictators elsewhere.

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surfisup1000

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#2252088 5-Jun-2019 13:24

Fred99:

This is off-topic, but what you're saying needs correcting:

China isn't "socialist" - it's an authoritarian communist dictatorship. As was the USSR - also never socialist.

Socialism is NOT incompatible with democracy.

The right wing argument that socialism communism always fails, conveniently forgets the fact that true democracy hasn't been around very long at all.

Off topic, I just had to correct you too.

Stop trying to defend socialism by claiming that China and the former USSR are not socialist. That argument is a lie, go and check your history of China and the USSR.

Socialism is horrible, and absolutely incompatible with democracy. Ask the Venezuelans.

When a democratic government starts implementing socialist policy, standard of living plummets and the people try to vote out the socialists. But, the socialists manipulate the elections or cancel them entirely, because they think they just need more time.

And, socialism does always fails. You should read 'Animal Farm', by George Orwell. Socialism's walk of destruction is at least predictable.

Fred99

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#2252105 5-Jun-2019 13:50

surfisup1000:

Socialism is horrible, and absolutely incompatible with democracy.

Oh for goodness sake.

Which is why all the most successful nations in the world are in the spectrum of social(ist) democracies?

I don't include China in either category - most successful or socialist.

There's massive wealth inequality and inequality of opportunity.

Dratsab

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#2252118 5-Jun-2019 14:47

zyo:

Tank man reminds me of this lady.

Both are peacefully opposing their tyranny government for its wrong doings and both were prosecuted (although unclear what happened in the case of tank man).

Both are examples of human rights abuse and you don't get to arbitrarily decide who comes out on top.

What's the context to this photo?

The people in the background (including police, who look exceptionally clean and shiny) don't look concerned about anything and the streets seem remarkably empty. The aspect also gives the impression the photographer being quite close. All this leads me to think this is a staged photo taken during a training exercise. Looks SE Asia as well - is it even in China? (I'm at work and can't search it due to internet blocks, lol)

Fred99

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#2252125 5-Jun-2019 15:02

Dratsab:

What's the context to this photo?

Here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taking_a_Stand_in_Baton_Rouge

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