Changing of our flag , Yes or No.

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#1309092 21-May-2015 09:17

SirHumphreyAppleby:
mattwnz:
roobarb: Think of it as the logo of NZ Limited.

If a national flag is farcical, then so are trademarks, corporate logos and all other recognisable symbols of property and identity.

National Anthems on the other hand...

The national Anthem will be next. Have to admit that it is pretty dreary, although not as bad as some countries.

Which national anthem are you referring to? We have two.

Almost every single version of "God Defend New Zealand" has been dreary. The only exception I can think of is Alan Slater's arrangement, which was used at the start and end of broadcast on TV One for a few years. If not for that, I wouldn't have a clue what the words to the second and fifth English verse were. Written by an Irishman raised in Australia. Set to music by an Australian, winning a competition also judged by Australians. Still, very much our national anthem, so I don't want to see that changing either.

You mean this one?

SirHumphreyAppleby

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#1309096 21-May-2015 09:21

trig42:
SirHumphreyAppleby:

Almost every single version of "God Defend New Zealand" has been dreary. The only exception I can think of is Alan Slater's arrangement, which was used at the start and end of broadcast on TV One for a few years.

You mean this one?

That's the one.

robjg63

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#1309101 21-May-2015 09:33

Like most kiwis:

Dont especially think our current flag is particularly 'NZ'
Wouldnt mind changing it
Think spending that much money on the process is a waste of money
Dont like to think of the amount of argument there will be over changing it - it will ramp up as the process goes on

Probably the reason most kiwis would say just 'leave it as is'.

Purely on a design perspective I think that canadian flag is the design leader.
Two colours (would prefer it to be an optimistic colour ie not bloody NZ black!)
Clean iconic design - something along the lines of the 'New Zealand Made' stylised kiwi gets my vote.
All those fiddly ferns and swirls are too complex.

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#1309107 21-May-2015 09:42

robjg63: Like most kiwis:

Dont especially think our current flag is particularly 'NZ'
Wouldnt mind changing it
Think spending that much money on the process is a waste of money
Dont like to think of the amount of argument there will be over changing it - it will ramp up as the process goes on

Probably the reason most kiwis would say just 'leave it as is'.

Purely on a design perspective I think that canadian flag is the design leader.
Two colours (would prefer it to be an optimistic colour ie not bloody NZ black!)
Clean iconic design - something along the lines of the 'New Zealand Made' stylised kiwi gets my vote.
All those fiddly ferns and swirls are too complex.

I don't think we should get to focussed on the cost in the grand scheme of things and having regard to the Governments total annual expenditure $25Million is not that great. It is less than half that spent daily on health and welfare.
Also think of how much corporations spend on new Logos which most change on a regular cycle, reality is $25Million for a hundred odd years is not bad, its $684 per diem for the design.

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

MileHighKiwi

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#1309111 21-May-2015 09:53

I don't see the point unless we are also voting to become a republic.

Why change it just for aesthetics? It won't change our constitution.

The money doesn't really matter, this whole "we could build 10 schools" is a silly argument, it doesn't work that way. Government budgets are massive and $26M is a drop in the ocean.

I just don't see the point of changing it.

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#1309141 21-May-2015 10:07

I'm all for changing the flag. My wife's family has been in NZ since the early 1840s and my family since the early 1900s so neither of us have any connection to Britain at all. The Union Jack on the flag just means nothing to either of us. I'm not a fan of the silver fern on a black background but honestly if it came down to that or the current flag I'd go with the fern. It at least would mean more to me.

It really annoys me about the "we fought under the NZ flag" argument. In fact NZ soldiers were fighting as British soldiers in WW1 and to a lesser extent in WW2. According to Wikipedia the first time that the NZ flag was flown in battle was in 1939 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_New_Zealand#Flown_in_battle) so that's just a rubbish excuse. Our soldiers always fought for the country not the flag.

I'd love to see the flag site adopt some form or voting and then filter the most popular by default. That would get all these piss take designs to the bottom (hopefully) and show people some of the great designs out there without going through them all.

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#1309149 21-May-2015 10:24

DravidDavid: ... but even my parents (hard core government loving national supporters) seem to think something more important is going on and the flag situation is to divert attention.

Samuel Johnson: Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel.

chaka160

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#1309219 21-May-2015 11:22

I honestly don't personally agree with it; but that's simply from the point of view that it's not something I'm particularly concerned about.

I'd just think they could use the energy on other things, is all.

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#1309248 21-May-2015 13:18

chaka160: I honestly don't personally agree with it; but that's simply from the point of view that it's not something I'm particularly concerned about. I'd just think they could use the energy on other things, is all.

I don't think governments work in serial. The people involved in this aren't being held up from dealing with other issues.

The only thing is the money being spent but everyone would be able to find heaps of other things that are funded to this level that they would disagree with.

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#1309281 21-May-2015 13:42

cyberhub:
MikeB4: I have not decided yet, it is good that the issue is being discussed and the opportunity to contribute to the decision. Two options I do like are ...

I am not too concerned about the flag but I have to say that I do like this one.

I don't really get the obsession with a random and somewhat dull piece of vegetation....

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#1309283 21-May-2015 13:43

it's amazing how reading persuasive opinions can be persuasive

i was against changing it but now i think it is worth it if it looks cool and has deep meaning to it

unfortunately that means some sort of painting that symbolises the treaty. ie deep seated discordance

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Geektastic

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#1309285 21-May-2015 13:44

trig42:
SirHumphreyAppleby:
mattwnz:
roobarb: Think of it as the logo of NZ Limited.

If a national flag is farcical, then so are trademarks, corporate logos and all other recognisable symbols of property and identity.

National Anthems on the other hand...

The national Anthem will be next. Have to admit that it is pretty dreary, although not as bad as some countries.

Which national anthem are you referring to? We have two.

Almost every single version of "God Defend New Zealand" has been dreary. The only exception I can think of is Alan Slater's arrangement, which was used at the start and end of broadcast on TV One for a few years. If not for that, I wouldn't have a clue what the words to the second and fifth English verse were. Written by an Irishman raised in Australia. Set to music by an Australian, winning a competition also judged by Australians. Still, very much our national anthem, so I don't want to see that changing either.

You mean this one?

Why not just ask the Rolling Stones or AC/DC to put it to music? Bound to be better.

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#1309286 21-May-2015 13:44

definitely not that picture above

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#1309289 21-May-2015 13:51

The Australian and New Zealand flags are cookie-cutter designs from the distant days of the British Empire.

All that these designs tell you is that these countries were once British colonies (Union Jack), and are located somewhere in the Southern hemisphere (Southern Cross).

Almost any design would be an improvement on this.

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#1309292 21-May-2015 14:08

langers1972: Like many I couldn't care less about the flag, what bothers me is the grotesque waste of money. With an estimated 1 in 4 kiwi kids living in poverty is $26m spent on a glorified colouring competition a valid use of taxpayers money? Not to mention creaking hospitals, schools etc etc

I would prefer that 26 million was spent on the actual flag design, by paying top designers, rather than all these 'feel good' and 'PC' activities that are going on, and the various roadshows which are largely a waste of time. If you pay peanuts (or nothing for the design), you get monkeys.

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