IN or OUT? All on in the UK for the next 10 weeks.

Forums › Off topic › IN or OUT? All on in the UK for the next 10 weeks.

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#1535197 18-Apr-2016 20:55

I've distilled the argument to this:

If people are more important than trade then stay.

If trade is more important than people then leave.

If BREXIT have their way, the UK will exit and arrange some suitable trade deals ( eg like Canada etc). Capital can freely move, people can't.

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#1535205 18-Apr-2016 21:12

roobarb:

I've distilled the argument to this:

If people are more important than trade then stay.

If trade is more important than people then leave.

If BREXIT have their way, the UK will exit and arrange some suitable trade deals ( eg like Canada etc). Capital can freely move, people can't.

gotta call BS on that...

HOW is it "better for the people" for the UK to stay?

Better for WHICH people? UK citizens, or EU immigrants?

and IF you think its "better for the people" of the UK (without the trade issue even on the table), how is that so???

Geektastic

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#1535260 18-Apr-2016 23:30

Here's some food for thought

"The latest ONS (Office of National Statistics) population forecast says a total of 2,966,000 more people will move to Britain than leave between 2015/16 and 2029/30. (The ONS has confirmed this stat to The Telegraph)."

That's the equivalent of most of New Zealand...

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#1535262 18-Apr-2016 23:33

And here is the opening paragraph of an article in today's Telegraph by Lord Tebbit, making the very same point I made here earlier:

"Spare us another couple of months of hair-raising panic attacks by Remainers like Stephen Crabb for whom the days when the British people used to make their own laws and elect their own governments where back in the dark ages, indeed before he had even started school."

roobarb

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#1535295 19-Apr-2016 06:41

PhantomNVD:

gotta call BS on that...

HOW is it "better for the people" for the UK to stay?

Better for WHICH people? UK citizens, or EU immigrants?

If living and working in another country is an alien concept to you, or the only immigrants you meet have stolen the jobs you refuse to do, or your only holiday abroad was ruined by not being able to get Fish and Chips and Watney's Red Barrel then BREXIT is for you.

Of course the worst thing about all this EU integration is you can't tell they are foreigners until they speak to you in perfect English with an eastern European accent.

BREXIT also means end of right of UK citizens to easily live and work in the rest of EU.

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#1535301 19-Apr-2016 07:34

this must be a hard one.

if NZ finds it impossible in 20 years to limit asset sales to non residents, BREXIT is impossible to call on. good luck

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#1535319 19-Apr-2016 08:23

roobarb:

BREXIT also means end of right of UK citizens to easily live and work in the rest of EU.

Freedom of movement could easily be implemented by individual governments working together. It doesn't need an organization like the EU.

The movement of people between NZ and Australia is an example.

Fred99

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#1535347 19-Apr-2016 09:28

Interesting interactive poll here in The Economist - showing how close it is.

So, if you're old, conservative, poorly educated, you're more likely to favour brexit. No surprise there.

Not much difference in polling for women/men, slightly more in favour of brexit from North of England - Scotland firmly in favour of staying.

Fred99

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#1535350 19-Apr-2016 09:38

Geektastic:

Here's some food for thought

"The latest ONS (Office of National Statistics) population forecast says a total of 2,966,000 more people will move to Britain than leave between 2015/16 and 2029/30. (The ONS has confirmed this stat to The Telegraph)."

That's the equivalent of most of New Zealand...

It's actually less than 1/4 of NZ net migration gain on a per capita basis.

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#1535351 19-Apr-2016 09:39

Fred99:

Interesting interactive poll here in The Economist - showing how close it is.

So, if you're old, conservative, poorly educated, you're more likely to favour brexit. No surprise there.

Not much difference in polling for women/men, slightly more in favour of brexit from North of England - Scotland firmly in favour of staying.

WOW, to close to call, this could go either way but I guess its early days in the campaign.

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

shk292

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#1535369 19-Apr-2016 09:51

Fred99:

Geektastic:

Here's some food for thought

"The latest ONS (Office of National Statistics) population forecast says a total of 2,966,000 more people will move to Britain than leave between 2015/16 and 2029/30. (The ONS has confirmed this stat to The Telegraph)."

That's the equivalent of most of New Zealand...

It's actually less than 1/4 of NZ net migration gain on a per capita basis.

With the difference being, NZ has a careful selection process for who is allowed to migrate here, based on the points system and (mostly) ruling out those who are likely to be a drain on the country

With the EU, anyone who has EU citizenship can move to the UK, no questions asked

So the relative quantity may be comparable, but the quality?

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roobarb

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#1535393 19-Apr-2016 10:31

shk292: With the difference being, NZ has a careful selection process for who is allowed to migrate here, based on the points system and (mostly) ruling out those who are likely to be a drain on the country

With the EU, anyone who has EU citizenship can move to the UK, no questions asked

If you want to compare like-with-like then compare people coming to NZ from the various Pacific Islands and Australia.

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#1535437 19-Apr-2016 11:14

roobarb:
shk292: With the difference being, NZ has a careful selection process for who is allowed to migrate here, based on the points system and (mostly) ruling out those who are likely to be a drain on the country

With the EU, anyone who has EU citizenship can move to the UK, no questions asked

If you want to compare like-with-like then compare people coming to NZ from the various Pacific Islands and Australia.

Exactly, and just as problematic (and draining) but on a much smaller scale as NZ is proportionally the Bigger brother here, while the UK is minuscule compared to the EU as a whole...

Geektastic

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#1535451 19-Apr-2016 11:20

roobarb:

shk292: With the difference being, NZ has a careful selection process for who is allowed to migrate here, based on the points system and (mostly) ruling out those who are likely to be a drain on the country

With the EU, anyone who has EU citizenship can move to the UK, no questions asked

If you want to compare like-with-like then compare people coming to NZ from the various Pacific Islands and Australia.

I've never really found an explanation as to why we allow PI people to just move here with little or no assessment of the benefit to NZ yet require everyone else more or less to prove their worthiness beyond doubt at vast expense!

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#1535463 19-Apr-2016 11:22

Geektastic:

roobarb:

shk292: With the difference being, NZ has a careful selection process for who is allowed to migrate here, based on the points system and (mostly) ruling out those who are likely to be a drain on the country

With the EU, anyone who has EU citizenship can move to the UK, no questions asked

If you want to compare like-with-like then compare people coming to NZ from the various Pacific Islands and Australia.

I've never really found an explanation as to why we allow PI people to just move here with little or no assessment of the benefit to NZ yet require everyone else more or less to prove their worthiness beyond doubt at vast expense!

Many are citizens due to their home being a NZ territory, previously a NZ territory and they make good citizens of NZ.

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

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