Gamechangers - Meat Doco

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tdgeek

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#2358421 21-Nov-2019 09:11

dafman:

tdgeek:

dafman:

Ok, now I've seen it, my summary of Gamechangers:

If you want a body like Arnold Schwarzenegger, eat a plant-based diet;
If you want to be able to fight like a UFC champion, eat a plant-based diet;
If you want a 500% increase in overnight erections, eat a plant-based diet.
Or to sum it all up, as the film makers consistently did at every opportunity: Real men eat a plant-based diet!

Did I miss anything?

Are you going to change to a plant based diet?

I'm not an all-american frat boy, so clearly outside of the intended audience.

That's the point, you are bagging the doco, so your opinion is biased, as are parts of the doco. Many here have posted that the doco is biased, but so is the opposition to a plant based diet. It may well be that eating bacon and hash browns for breakfast, and steak for lunch and tea is healthier, but I'd like to weigh up the facts. Just because they have stretched the truth doesn't mean the inherent basis is false. Take the strongman, he is on a plant based diet. Fact. Its found he also takes a lot of protein supplements so that means the plant based diet is fake? Off course anyone like him will take protein shakes as do many going to strength extremes

It appears to me that not eating meat is a bummer, so we don't support that, so anyone who suggests that is wrong, as its not convenient. At its simplest level, its JUST a health issue. A plant based diet seems to overcome many of the health issues with meat, so is it wrong to look deeper?

Kiwifruta

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#2358959 21-Nov-2019 22:05

rhy7s:
Beccara:

Anythings possible but for me it's about time, every single non-meat eater I know spends huge amounts of their day thinking/buying/preping their food in order to remain healthy, Quite a few commented how hard it was to keep up iron levels and many supplemented with protein powders at-least once a week , Compared to myself some of them were spending 5-6x the amount of time involved with their diet. You really can't beat meat as something that you can easily create and consume year round as a good source of protein that makes up a balanced diet.

Rhino's spend upto 1/2 of their waking hours eating and the rest wallowing, Gorilla's spend 1/3 of their day eating and 1/3 forging with the rest sleeping and mild actives.

I'm fully plant based and don't use refined fats, sugar or salt, preparing almost everything from scratch, spend up to half an hour a day on food prep and eat only once a day. Grocery shopping once a month (with some bulk goods delivered by post) with a few fruit and veg top ups in between. Only supplement B12, blood results are excellent. Been approx 10 years plant based without exception, for about 5 years before that would eat eggs from our ducks at the time and dairy if someone else had prepared it. Vegetarian for about 5 years prior to that. Bulk calories are cheap, grains in the $2-3/kg range and legumes in the $3-$5 range. Also get NZ grown quinoa at about $7/kg. Buy kumara at about $1.50-$2.50/kg, don't eat much potato, but that can be $1/kg or less, onions $2/kg, a variety of berries are under $10/kg frozen. Brassicas are cheap if you're not looking at fancy varieties. Grains and legumes are very easy to create dishes around. No refrigeration necessary, long shelf life, moments to prepare and 30mins plus or minus to cook if you're using lentils or black eyed beans and brown rice. Or no hassle in a slow cooker, or faster in a pressure cooker, or cans are quick and pretty cheap, often under $1.50. Humans have access to much higher calorie density plants, and much lower body masses to maintain than larger herbivores.

Where do you get quinoa and kumara at such good prices?

rhy7s

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#2358977 21-Nov-2019 22:39

Kiwifruta:

Where do you get quinoa and kumara at such good prices?

Bulk quinoa from The New Zealand Quinoa Co. (light, cooks fast, can basically replace couscous) and Kiwi Quinoa (denser, slower cooking) - though both their prices have gone up a little bit since our last orders. For small amounts though, Countdown do $10/kg in their Macro range, which is decent. We get roadside stall kumara, ideally when the 10kg sacks are $15. When in season though, if you're lucky with your greengrocers and supermarkets, it can drop below $3/kg there as well.

Kiwifruta

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#2358979 21-Nov-2019 22:56

dafman:

Ok, now I've seen it, my summary of Gamechangers:

If you want a body like Arnold Schwarzenegger, eat a plant-based diet;
If you want to be able to fight like a UFC champion, eat a plant-based diet;
If you want a 500% increase in overnight erections, eat a plant-based diet.
Or to sum it all up, as the film makers consistently did at every opportunity: Real men eat a plant-based diet!

Did I miss anything?

If you want a 500% increase in overnight erections eat a plant-based diet
As the doctor in the experiment said, it wasn't a study.
No baseline had been set.
i.e.. How many erections did they normally get? A proper baseline cannot be set from just one night, and that night being the first night they wore the measuring device, because two variables changed in quick succession of each other. So for all we know erections might have gone down 1000% on the first night the device was worn and then the second night when it felt less uncomfortable began returning to normal levels, but still be below normal, and had nothing to do with whether the tacos contained meat or not.

I'm not saying there isn't an improvement with a vegan diet, but one cannot conclude that from 3 men over two consecutive nights. There is far too small a dataset and insufficient timeframe.
So too with the referred to China Study. As far as I know, none of the groups of people in the China Study were vegans. So how can one state that because those who ate less meat had fewer symptoms of a particular set of chronic diseases than those who ate more meat, so therefore eating no meat is even healthier?
If we applied the same logic to eating calories it would be the equivalent of concluding that since a person who eats 2,000 calories a day is healthier than a person who eats 8,000 calories a day, therefore a person who eats 0 calories a day would be even more healthy. We know that's simply not true and eventually they'd drop down dead.
Also, there are so many other factors at play. (By the way, I'm working through my own analysis of the China Study dataset, the dataset is available online. It'll take a while to do the analysis as I'm still learning how to use my analysis tools of Python and Pandas).

To me, the video is a collection of anecdotal events that aren't conclusive but only show possible matters for further proper investigation.

The vast majority of the people I know who became health conscious vegans and espouse the health benefits of the vegan diet, weren't previously health conscious meat eaters. i.e. they were overweight or underweight, didn't exercise, hardly ate vegetables and ate plenty of junk food. To say it was the elimination of animal products alone from their diets that resulted in their health improvements is overlooking other factors that also changed, i.e. increased vegetable consumption, uptake of regular exercise, reduction of junk food. One guy told me he he could now do 40 push ups as a vegan but as a meat eater he could hardly do any. As a meat eater, at one stage, I was doing 200 push ups a night, 60 of those being one arm push ups, I only stopped doing them because it became an endurance exercise and I was after strength benefits. So their anecdotal stories whilst interesting aren't proof of the virtues of veganism. I'm not saying a vegan diet isn't healthier than a diet that includes animal products, but what I am saying is that a few anecdotal evidences are not conclusive proof.

The best health resource I've ever read, book or otherwise is this blog https://coolinginflammation.blogspot.com/

Kiwifruta

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#2358980 21-Nov-2019 23:01

rhy7s:
Kiwifruta:

Where do you get quinoa and kumara at such good prices?

Bulk quinoa from The New Zealand Quinoa Co. (light, cooks fast, can basically replace couscous) and Kiwi Quinoa (denser, slower cooking) - though both their prices have gone up a little bit since our last orders. For small amounts though, Countdown do $10/kg in their Macro range, which is decent. We get roadside stall kumara, ideally when the 10kg sacks are $15. When in season though, if you're lucky with your greengrocers and supermarkets, it can drop below $3/kg there as well.

Thank you!

tdgeek

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#2359055 22-Nov-2019 07:05

Kiwifruta:

Where do you get quinoa and kumara at such good prices?

Note that any purple food is excellent, I forget what they have in them but they are superior

Lego

Shop now for Lego sets and other gifts (affiliate link).

tdgeek

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#2359056 22-Nov-2019 07:16

Kiwifruta:

dafman:

Ok, now I've seen it, my summary of Gamechangers:

If you want a body like Arnold Schwarzenegger, eat a plant-based diet;
If you want to be able to fight like a UFC champion, eat a plant-based diet;
If you want a 500% increase in overnight erections, eat a plant-based diet.
Or to sum it all up, as the film makers consistently did at every opportunity: Real men eat a plant-based diet!

Did I miss anything?

Or

If you want a 500% increase in overnight erections eat a plant-based diet
As the doctor in the experiment said, it wasn't a study.
No baseline had been set.
i.e.. How many erections did they normally get? A proper baseline cannot be set from just one night, and that night being the first night they wore the measuring device, because two variables changed in quick succession of each other. So for all we know erections might have gone down 1000% on the first night the device was worn and then the second night when it felt less uncomfortable began returning to normal levels, but still be below normal, and had nothing to do with whether the tacos contained meat or not.

I'm not saying there isn't an improvement with a vegan diet, but one cannot conclude that from 3 men over two consecutive nights. There is far too small a dataset and insufficient timeframe.
So too with the referred to China Study. As far as I know, none of the groups of people in the China Study were vegans. So how can one state that because those who ate less meat had fewer symptoms of a particular set of chronic diseases than those who ate more meat, so therefore eating no meat is even healthier?
If we applied the same logic to eating calories it would be the equivalent of concluding that since a person who eats 2,000 calories a day is healthier than a person who eats 8,000 calories a day, therefore a person who eats 0 calories a day would be even more healthy. We know that's simply not true and eventually they'd drop down dead.
Also, there are so many other factors at play. (By the way, I'm working through my own analysis of the China Study dataset, the dataset is available online. It'll take a while to do the analysis as I'm still learning how to use my analysis tools of Python and Pandas).

To me, the video is a collection of anecdotal events that aren't conclusive but only show possible matters for further proper investigation.

The vast majority of the people I know who became health conscious vegans and espouse the health benefits of the vegan diet, weren't previously health conscious meat eaters. i.e. they were overweight or underweight, didn't exercise, hardly ate vegetables and ate plenty of junk food. To say it was the elimination of animal products alone from their diets that resulted in their health improvements is overlooking other factors that also changed, i.e. increased vegetable consumption, uptake of regular exercise, reduction of junk food. One guy told me he he could now do 40 push ups as a vegan but as a meat eater he could hardly do any. As a meat eater, at one stage, I was doing 200 push ups a night, 60 of those being one arm push ups, I only stopped doing them because it became an endurance exercise and I was after strength benefits. So their anecdotal stories whilst interesting aren't proof of the virtues of veganism. I'm not saying a vegan diet isn't healthier than a diet that includes animal products, but what I am saying is that a few anecdotal evidences are not conclusive proof.

The best health resource I've ever read, book or otherwise is this blog https://coolinginflammation.blogspot.com/

I agree

If the doco hadnt been so biased, and focussed on real benefits, it would have been more informative, but it would have been less sensational and awesome. But the fact is plants are better, and meat is problematic, especially red meat. Although to be fair if you removed preservative based food, that's a huge gain in itself. And there no need to be fully meat free. Or vegan.

Kiwifruta

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#2359071 22-Nov-2019 07:42

@tdgeek I agree. There are so many other variables at play.

e.g. grass fed vs grain fed, free range vs stall, refrigerated vs non refrigerated, lactose containing dairy products vs cream and butter etc.

Kiwifruta

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#2359072 22-Nov-2019 07:45

@dafman, just to be clear my reply was a criticism of the (lack of proper) methodology the movie makers used to draw audiences to conclusions about a plant based diet and not a criticism of your summary.

dafman

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#2359178 22-Nov-2019 09:24

Kiwifruta: @dafman, just to be clear my reply was a criticism of the (lack of proper) methodology the movie makers used to draw audiences to conclusions about a plant based diet and not a criticism of your summary.

@Kiwifruta No worries, I read it as intended.

My problem with the 'doco' was its blatant bias and false promise of exponential Herculean health improvement.

I have no doubt that eating less meat is better for our health and for the environment. So, I guess, if this 'doco' helps get that message to an audience that would have never previously sat down to watch a pro-vege message, then maybe that's not such a bad thing.

For the last few years, probably three days in an average week for me are meat free, and on the days I eat meat, it's not a large portion and only in one meal of the day. And I'm seriously considering pushing meat free into four or five days a week. But could I contemplate a future without the occasional medium-rare eye fillet, or juicy lamb loin chop? Not yet.

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