UFOs: are they really just a fictitious phenomenon?

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#492917 13-Jul-2011 15:23

cgrew:
An off-topic on the geekzone forum, I would have expected better than this? You know, those comments could have come across rather offensive BearningBeard?

Well if I offended you, sorry. I don’t think I directly insulted you though. I’ve called the links garbage, not you (I do try to attack the argument, rather than the arguer, but admit I’m not perfect when it comes to this.)

cgrew: Banned would hardly be the outcome for this sort of agenda deranged music but to what point are people or society going to say that this is unacceptable?

People DO say it’s unacceptable - all the time! People whine about it all over the internet. Religious lobby groups are constantly on the case. People complain to the Broadcasting Standards Authority.

Who is it to decide what is deranged and what isn’t? I listen to some absolutely crazy music, the sort of stuff that Joe Sixpack would say “isn’t music.” You mentioned not judging, but aren’t you doing just that? You’ve called it “agenda deranged” - what agenda? What proof is there of there even being an agenda? Who are these elites?

The tone of your posts suggests to methat even if they did ban this evil, occult material, you’d be the first to protest “them” for censoring music.

I’d sooner complain about stuff like Sensing Murder or the pseudo-science masquerading as “fact” on “documentary” TV. I personally find that stuff more offensive than your imaginary symbols or a chick that shows off too much leg in order to sell a stupid pop single that won’t matter in 10 years.

cgrew: We are constantly bombarded with this crap (Hollywood garble) Demon Heads in music videos? Promiscuity & sex pushed in 90% of all pop & clubbing music? Is society becoming desensitized to sex & violence? I think so.

I agree, Hollywood (well, most mainstream TV, music and movies) is mindless dreck, to me anyway... and that is why I don’t watch it... it bothers me less if I don’t actually see it.

“Demon heads.” Are you for real? Music videos are music videos. It’s entertainment. Sheesh, it’s a good thing there’s no such things as demons or we’d really be in trouble eh?

eta: Why the obsession with "hidden" symbols & messages in pop music? There's lots and lots of overtly satanic and occult related music out there - it's brazenly in your face. Surely you'd be more concerned with that?

I’m absolutely serious about what I said regarding these supposedly evil symbols - if you’re spotting this stuff in music videos, and it’s actually bothering you, then a mental health professional might be what you need. I knew a paranoid schizophrenic a few years ago and it’s heartbreaking to see what paranoid ideas can do to a person.

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#492969 13-Jul-2011 17:03

“Demon heads.” Are you for real? Music videos are music videos.

Fine, I'll rephrase, Baphomet - Which is more specific to occultists.

TheUngeek

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#492984 13-Jul-2011 17:26

Whats wrong with Baphomet? Just another name/being/symbol that has bee twisted by history. As they all have been.

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#492992 13-Jul-2011 17:42

I like symbols. They represent things. And fears. Which is natural of all species (unless you are a lion, or a tiger, but no one here is - and this is the "feline" symbolism in this post). Symbols are used everywhere. In the Judeo/Christian ethics. In candomble, in voodoo.

Just look at my current tag - Memuneh. It's a symbol.

What I don't like is when charlatans try to take advantage of peoples' fears by creating fairy tales. Hard evidence, or no tales.

By the way, everyone got pentagrams under their usernames here. Some golden, some not...

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#493000 13-Jul-2011 17:53

TheUngeek: Whats wrong with Baphomet? Just another name/being/symbol that has bee twisted by history. As they all have been.

"Baphomet is a composite creation symbolic of alchemical realization through the union of opposite forces. Occultists believe that, through the mastery of life force, one is able to produce magick and spiritual enlightenment. Eliphas Levi’s depiction of Baphomet included several symbols alluding to the raising of the kundalini – serpentine power – which ultimately leads to the activation of the pineal gland, also known as the “third eye”. So, from an esoteric point of view, Baphomet represents this occult process.

However, over time the symbol has come to signify much more than its esoteric meaning. Through controversies, Baphomet became, depending of the point of view, a representation of everything that is good in occultism or everything that is evil in occultism. It is, in fact, the ultimate “scapegoat”, the face of witchcraft, black magick and Satanism. The fact that the symbol is rather monstrous and grotesque has probably helped propel the symbol to its level of infamy as it never fails to shock organized religions while attracting those who rebel against them.

Since gaining widespread recognition in popular culture, the image of Baphomet is now used as a symbol of anything regarding occultism and ritualism. In corporate-owned mass media, which has ties with secret societies, the figure of Baphomet appears in the oddest places, often to audiences too young to understand the occult reference (Secret Arcana’s sister site Vigilant Citizen documents the occurrences of Baphomet and other occult symbols in music videos, movies and fashion). Is Baphomet used in pop culture as a symbol of the power of the occult elite over the ignorant masses?

After centuries of myths, hoaxes, propaganda and disinformation on both sides of the spectrum, can we truly answer the the original question posed by this article: “Who is Baphomet?”. Is it a symbol of Satan or of spiritual enlightenment? Is it a symbol of good or evil? The answer lies within the symbol itself: It is both. In Egyptian mythology, Toth Hermes was a mediating power between good and evil, making sure neither had a decisive victory over the other. Baphomet represents the accomplishment on this cosmic task on a very small scale, within oneself. Once perfect equilibrium is attained on a personal level, the occult initiate can point one hand towards the heavens and one hand towards the earth and pronounce this hermetic axiom which reverberated through millenniums: “As Above, So Below”."

Full article:

http://secretarcana.com/occultsymbols/who-is-baphomet/

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#493004 13-Jul-2011 18:04

"... an imagined pagan deity (i.e., a product of Christian folklore concerning pagans), revived in the 19th century as a figure of occultism and Satanism. It first appeared in 11th and 12th century Latin and Provençal as a corruption of "Mahomet", the Latinisation of "Muhammad", but later it appeared as a term for a pagan idol in trial transcripts of the Inquisition of the Knights Templar in the early 14th century. The name first came into popular English-speaking consciousness in the 19th century, with debate and speculation on the reasons for the suppression of the Templars. Since 1855, the name Baphomet has been associated with a "Sabbatic Goat" image drawn by Éliphas Lévi." (Baphomet).

To me it sounds like a tale created by early Christians to show the masses how "bad" and "terrible" pagans and Muslims were...

Now, which source to believe? All sources could easily have been "seeded" to their own interests, of course.

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#493005 13-Jul-2011 18:12

Good question implied. A Christian fable/myth or not - Do you think that such a symbolic not to mention "grotesque" idol has any good benefits being portrayed in today's society?

BurningBeard

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#493017 13-Jul-2011 18:48

cgrew: Fine, I'll rephrase, Baphomet - Which is more specific to occultists.

And totally fictitious. Just like demons. Just like Santa, Boggarts, Zues and Psychics.

I'm curious as to why these elite overlord shadow masters who are capable of mass manipulation of the world believe in a fairy tale.

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#493018 13-Jul-2011 18:52

cgrew: Good question implied. A Christian fable/myth or not - Do you think that such a symbolic not to mention "grotesque" idol has any good benefits being portrayed in today's society?

Speaking just for myself, it's inspired some musicians I enjoy listening to. Granted, it's death metal with childish & cheesy lyrics, but I like it. I'd call that a benefit. The concept has inspired some pretty awesome artwork too.

And I still don't see any evidence of it being planted in mainstream pop music or culture, other than that what the credulous author/s of that ridiculous website seem to have just made up.

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#493021 13-Jul-2011 19:02

I have a conspiracy theory of my own. I've got nothing to back it up, it's just an idea that sits well with me (and I'm happy to admit that.)

My theory is that the more powerful and influential governments and corporations of the world don't bother with the popular conspiracies - there's nothing to debunk - but they're a convenient distraction from actual conspiracies; less exciting and fantastical conspiracies, but conspiracies nonetheless. That's why so many conspiracy-centred activist groups and websites don't get shut down or murdered.

I love this quote from Alan Moore, the writer:

The main thing that I learned about conspiracy theory is that conspiracy theorists actually believe in a conspiracy because that is more comforting. The truth of the world is that it is chaotic. The truth is, that it is not the Jewish banking conspiracy or the grey aliens or the 12 foot reptiloids from another dimension that are in control. The truth is more frightening, nobody is in control. The world is rudderless.

(my apologies to the moderators for posting three posts in a row like that, I should have combined them)

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#493023 13-Jul-2011 19:07

Good for you. Obliviously for you the benefits are good?

I guess this is all the make-up of today's "pop-culture" speaking for myself, respectively.

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#493042 13-Jul-2011 19:43

Never let fact or science get in the way of a good conspiracy

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

gzt

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#493076 13-Jul-2011 20:58

I thought the original article you linked to was worthwhile and interesting. Like I said before, if you take out the UFO stuff, you are left with the obvious fact that U.S goverment agencies have quite a bit of creative input into scripts where film makers give them that right - in exchange for filming in restricted areas and using U.S goverment military hardware.

The basics of it are documented in primary goverment sources, no problem there:

http://www.airforcehollywood.af.mil/faqs/topic.asp?id=1095
http://www.airforcehollywood.af.mil/ (list of recently projects)
http://www.army.mil/info/institution/publicAffairs/ocpa-west/faq.html
http://www.af.mil/news/story.asp?id=123117143

It all sounds a bit like North Korea to me and not something a democracy or democratic institutions should be doing at all.

But having said that, not all blockbuster film makers choose to compromise their creative vision in this way, and it is not compulsory.

Like I said before (leaving aside the examples of heavy handed censorship in the 50-60's) just because those agencies may have an aim of avoiding some ufo scenarios - it does not therefore mean that alien ufos might actually exist. I can think of many different reasons why they might want to do that separate from alien ufo's actually existing.

The site you linked to reprints articles from all kinds of sources, and of varying quality.

Anyway, after that things moved on to this world elite thing & mysterious symbols. The full name and subtitle of the site: "The Vigilant Citizen: : "Symbols Rule The World Not Words Or Laws".

I read one or two of the articles written by the guy that runs the site. As far as I can make out he is saying that many celebrities and media artists are fascinated with occult symbols and use them in their work. He relates many of the narratives in contemporary video, music and film to classical myth and occultic narratives he is familiar with from studying them intensely.

The author is not very clear about how these symbols are supposed to influence people or how these things create a global elite or something, that part is a bit of a mystery to me. Can you explain a bit about how that is supposed to work?

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#493099 13-Jul-2011 21:44

gzt:
I read one or two of the articles written by the guy that runs the site. As far as I can make out he is saying that many celebrities and media artists are fascinated with occult symbols and use them in their work. He relates many of the narratives in contemporary video, music and film to classical myth and occultic narratives he is familiar with from studying them intensely.

If you are working in/with the media and trying to maximise your return, why make it more difficult than it needs to be...
Identify with some element of popular folklaw or culture, manipulate it a bit if you must (to personalise your own brand), and let human nature do the rest.... Rebellious non conformist behaviour is what?? It's simply refusing to follow the current norm by running off to conform to a different rule set or societal structure.
Its creating new myths, reinvesting in old narratives.... it could be a culture, a political movement, a religion... or worst a short term commitment to 'the-rugby-world-cup'... but it'll start with an idea and a few individuals.

Celebrities, the media, and high net worth individuals are better placed to indulge and explore any option, as they have the profile, power and the money to leverage and manipulate those looking to be different (by trying to be the same).

Life is full of ways to look backwards to twist us on decision paths leading forward. And going forward life will always be a variation on its past.
Life will always be a variation on its own themes

cgrew

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#493281 14-Jul-2011 12:20

I guess the main idea or agenda behind it is the strive for a one world government. A lot of countries have considered this for many years. Some have called this a New World Order or New Frontier, and it's becoming more apparent on this side of the new millennium. America is obsessed with it.

Hollywood, the Media & all big 'trendy' money making corporations are all contributing factors towards the one world government. And the benefits for them are all in favour for it. A one world government could easily manage the economy, and lead (or manipulate?) the masses.

Obliviously there are big problems in the world surrounding this, one being the global population. Statistics have shown that by the year 2020 we will have exceeded over the 8 billion mark, some are predicting that it could well be in excess of 10 billion for global population. These numbers are not in favour for global population control, and would make for a one world government prove very difficult.

So what steps would the global governments consider taking for this supreme one world, one economy, one religion? Or agenda? Whichever you prefer, governed democracy? That is where all sorts of controversies are being discussed and are open for debate globally. The benefits may be in favour for the politicians and governments but what wild cards are they throwing on the table? Depopulation? I would certainly hope not.

If you break it down, which isn't hard, it just requires a bit of common sense (not saying that we all don't have it here) but the current trends of Hollywood & the media, violent video games & the likes, aren't doing any of us a favour. In fact, what it's doing, is desensitizing the population (or dumbing down society) on a massive level. And it's not just in entertainment either, big food cooperation's have input on this too, and there is no way geo-modified food does the population any good long term. You've also got the likes of media & television portraying degenerate movie stars & idols, and if that's all the "bewildered herd" (reference: Walter Lippmann 1889-1974) are shown, then that is most likely all they're going to care about. An ignorant population is much easier to lead then one that knows its rights.

The original founders and elite thinkers of America, Walter Lippmann being one of them & the Rockefellers for instance, new this and understood how the system worked "to manipulate & control the masses" in their words, and their books and teachings have been used since long before settlement in America. As early as the late 1800s they modelled the design of the capitalist system similar to that of the human brain. A series of networks working in a tangent system that keeps the capitalist machine fuelling with all of the buying & selling of commodities. To the elite thinkers, it's a system that works with unprecedented values & rewards. The symbolism in the American dollar bill is the foundation and design of this system.

Moving on, this is my opinion and not a conspiracy theory (the one world government that is). The wild cards that play off it though, can be seen as a conspiracy no doubt. My personal beliefs do play apart in what I've said on this forum and I'm happy to admit that, even though they get criticised, (discriminated?) that's all part in parcel to open off-topic discussions and I'm quite open minded about it all. Even though there are a few things that stick out to me rather oddly in regards to what's being portrayed in today's media, these are my own beliefs. And I believe there is more than meets the eye behind the scenes when it comes to governments and politics. If you look at the original elite thinkers of this side of the century, and their esoteric agenda, a shadow government seems probable.

Just to add too.

- No. I do not believe that the world is run by reptilian baby-eating aliens.
- And no I am not a charlatan.

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