UFOs: are they really just a fictitious phenomenon?

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cgrew

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Topic # 86557 8-Jul-2011 12:40

I just read an article on the History of Government Management of UFO Perceptions through Film & Television from vigilantcitizen.com

Very interesting read I must say, and a great article on this rather mysterious phenomenon...

Read for yourself.

http://vigilantcitizen.com/moviesandtv/a-history-of-government-management-of-ufo-perceptions-through-film-and-television/

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Reply # 491036 8-Jul-2011 12:59

I don't think they're fictitious, because there are objects that are unidentified.

But the whole alien thing... I file that under fictitious/imaginary. I'm an ex UFO nut and even the "best case" stories I used to hold dear are flimsy and tenuous at best.

People always create conspiracies when there's secrets. Hence the Area51 thing. Military bases keep secrets for good reasons. But the tinfoil had brigade love concocting stories around it.

eta: haven't read the article you posted mate, but will when I have more time.
eta again: oh boy, that site is full of woo-woo tinfoil hattery, the usual illuminati & mind control rubbish, so I'm not holding my breath.

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crackrdbycracku

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Reply # 491041 8-Jul-2011 13:04

As I see it the argument for UFOs / alien life breaks down like this:

Point one:
Considering the vastness of the galaxy, let alone the universe, the idea that there is not intelligent life out there somewhere is naive. There is intelligent life out there capable of space flight, it's just a matter of numbers.

Point two:
Space is so big it is barely comprehensible to humans. The only serious idea for human interstella flight called for a space ship power by the explosion of nuclear bombs, the original project Orion.

Point three:
The only way UFOs would turn up would be if the alien version of the Discovery Channel decided to do a feature on Earth. This pre-supposes that whoever turns up will be massively advanced. Conquest is a stupid idea as any species advanced enough to get here would already have any physical resource we have in abundance. We haven't been to the moon since the 60's, why? Because there isn't anything there we really need and it is expensive. Expand this to a galactic scale and they would be really rich.

Well, that's what I think anyway.

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BurningBeard

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Reply # 491046 8-Jul-2011 13:11

crackrdbycracku: let alone the universe, the idea that there is not intelligent life out there somewhere is naive. There is intelligent life out there capable of space flight, it's just a matter of numbers.

It's also a matter of the laws of physics. Not only would they have to be capable of space travel, but travel of incomprehensible distances, for ridiculous amouts of time - time enough for dozens of human generations to pass. This hypothetical species would have to endure the wasting of the body that we know happens in space - someone born in space would never be able to set foot on a planet or their bones, if they have them, would just crumble.

There may well be advanced civilisations out there, but as far as we know, the nearest one to us might be, right now, in the middle of their equivalent of the Roman Empire.

The most likely way for us to reach "them, or for them to reach us, would be via radio waves - and the nearest solar system to us, if they have discovered radio waves, would just be tuning into Hitler's speech at the 1936 Olympics.

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xpd

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Reply # 491047 8-Jul-2011 13:11

Ive started to listen to this book that came out recently... some interesting points bought up etc.

http://www.amazon.com/Area-51-Uncensored-Americas-Military/dp/0316132942/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1310...

It is primarily aimed at Area 51 itself, not just UFOs but obviously thats what Area 51 is known for....

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Reply # 491050 8-Jul-2011 13:12

One of the authors (Robbie Graham ) "is a doctoral candidate at the University of Bristol for a PhD examining Hollywood’s historical representations of UFOs and extraterrestrial visitation. "

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crackrdbycracku

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Reply # 491051 8-Jul-2011 13:13

All good points:

When I said 'massively advanced' I was including: able to travel faster than light.

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BurningBeard

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Reply # 491054 8-Jul-2011 13:15

xpd: Ive started to listen to this book that came out recently... some interesting points bought up etc.

http://www.amazon.com/Area-51-Uncensored-Americas-Military/dp/0316132942/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1310...

It is primarily aimed at Area 51 itself, not just UFOs but obviously thats what Area 51 is known for....

Oh dear, Annie Jacobsen... that little gem.

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cgrew

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Reply # 491057 8-Jul-2011 13:17

BurningBeard: I don't think they're fictitious, because there are objects that are unidentified.

But the whole alien thing... I file that under fictitious/imaginary. I'm an ex UFO nut and even the "best case" stories I used to hold dear are flimsy and tenuous at best.

People always create conspiracies when there's secrets. Hence the Area51 thing. Military bases keep secrets for good reasons. But the tinfoil had brigade love concocting stories around it.

eta: haven't read the article you posted mate, but will when I have more time.
eta again: oh boy, that site is full of woo-woo tinfoil hattery, the usual illuminati & mind control rubbish, so I'm not holding my breath.

You should take the time and read the article for yourself before you "catergise" this straight in to the "tin-foil hat bin"

You may find that vigialntcitizen.com hold some rather interesting quiries on "tin-foil hat" subjects per say. I find it a rather reputable site in my opinion and it holds quite valuable information that can relate to today's "current affairs".

Post back once you've read the article.

Regards
Conor

cgrew

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Reply # 491066 8-Jul-2011 13:28

BurningBeard:
crackrdbycracku: let alone the universe, the idea that there is not intelligent life out there somewhere is naive. There is intelligent life out there capable of space flight, it's just a matter of numbers.

It's also a matter of the laws of physics. Not only would they have to be capable of space travel, but travel of incomprehensible distances, for ridiculous amouts of time - time enough for dozens of human generations to pass. This hypothetical species would have to endure the wasting of the body that we know happens in space - someone born in space would never be able to set foot on a planet or their bones, if they have them, would just crumble.

There may well be advanced civilisations out there, but as far as we know, the nearest one to us might be, right now, in the middle of their equivalent of the Roman Empire.

The most likely way for us to reach "them, or for them to reach us, would be via radio waves - and the nearest solar system to us, if they have discovered radio waves, would just be tuning into Hitler's speech at the 1936 Olympics.

Yes, that maybe true, but you are logically thinking on a physical level there. What if E.T's were spiritual perhaps? Or inter-dimensional?

Only a theory per say.

BurningBeard

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Reply # 491072 8-Jul-2011 13:34

cgrew: What if E.T's were spiritual perhaps? Or inter-dimensional?

Only a theory per say.

A) that assumes that ET's are visiting us, which I very much doubt.
B) that assumes spirits are real, which I very much double

Inter-dimensional... sure... again, that assumes that ET's are visiting us.

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cgrew

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Reply # 491073 8-Jul-2011 13:40

BurningBeard:
cgrew: What if E.T's were spiritual perhaps? Or inter-dimensional?

Only a theory per say.

A) that assumes that ET's are visiting us, which I very much doubt.
B) that assumes spirits are real, which I very much double

Inter-dimensional... sure... again, that assumes that ET's are visiting us.

You may doubt, but you also don't know for sure either.

bazzer

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Reply # 491076 8-Jul-2011 13:51

BurningBeard:
crackrdbycracku: let alone the universe, the idea that there is not intelligent life out there somewhere is naive. There is intelligent life out there capable of space flight, it's just a matter of numbers.

It's also a matter of the laws of physics. Not only would they have to be capable of space travel, but travel of incomprehensible distances, for ridiculous amouts of time - time enough for dozens of human generations to pass. This hypothetical species would have to endure the wasting of the body that we know happens in space - someone born in space would never be able to set foot on a planet or their bones, if they have them, would just crumble.

There may well be advanced civilisations out there, but as far as we know, the nearest one to us might be, right now, in the middle of their equivalent of the Roman Empire.

The most likely way for us to reach "them, or for them to reach us, would be via radio waves - and the nearest solar system to us, if they have discovered radio waves, would just be tuning into Hitler's speech at the 1936 Olympics.

That's a pretty basic way of looking at things. If/when alien life visits the Earth, I doubt they will all have been sitting in a spaceship for millenia waiting to arrive here. I would assume they would have some advanced form of travel that we can't even comprehend yet. Maybe they visit and we don't even notice. It's crazy to assume that any alien life will be even remotely what we would consider "life" (higher dimensional beings etc).

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Reply # 491086 8-Jul-2011 13:58

Haven't you guys/galls watched the movie "Paul"... that explains everything nicely!

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BurningBeard

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Reply # 491088 8-Jul-2011 14:06

cgrew: You may doubt, but you also don't know for sure either.

This is true, but I can never be 100% about a lot of the crazy ideas floating around the internet. You can't say definitively that Allah isn't real - but do you believe in him? The onus of proof is on the person making the claim.

Not knowing is one thing, but it takes a huge leap of logic and a lot of mental gymnastics to settle on "it's aliens."

The lack of good evidence leads me to assume the phenomenon isn't real, and I live my live accordingly.

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cgrew

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Reply # 491092 8-Jul-2011 14:13

Bazzer raises a good point there; the article as mentioned above does not specifically talk about "space-ships" as such being UFO's. But leans towards being exactly what they are - Unidentified flying objects.

What the Governments agenda is on the perception of this particular subject on the other hand, well that's a whole different story entirely. You all have probably noticed the large amounts of "Alien" movies & themes coming out of Hollywood as of late? (Katey Perry I'm looking at you!)

Maybe there is more than meets the eye with this one.

Just look at the 2012 Olympic Mascots for instance? ;)

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