Pike River - Seal or recovery?

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Networkn
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#1687398 13-Dec-2016 21:54

Campbell had one of the family on the radio yesterday. As upset as she was, no logic was to be found in any of what she said. It's all emotion, which is understandable, but NOT grounds to go back in.

I get the feeling what the families are in now is the anger stage of grieving. She was very angry and wants accountability which I can understand, but I thought an investigation was done and people were charged ?

I felt for this lady, she is obviously doing it very hard, and doing her best to hold on to what she can, but I still maintain regardless of that, that if the risk is %1 and let's be honest, it's virtually impossible to say it's not at least that, then it should not be attempted. She even acknowledged there would be little to recover (sort of) but seems to want "evidence".

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#1687400 13-Dec-2016 22:02

networkn:

Campbell had one of the family on the radio yesterday. As upset as she was, no logic was to be found in any of what she said. It's all emotion, which is understandable, but NOT grounds to go back in.

I get the feeling what the families are in now is the anger stage of grieving. She was very angry and wants accountability which I can understand, but I thought an investigation was done and people were charged ?

I felt for this lady, she is obviously doing it very hard, and doing her best to hold on to what she can, but I still maintain regardless of that, that if the risk is %1 and let's be honest, it's virtually impossible to say it's not at least that, then it should not be attempted. She even acknowledged there would be little to recover (sort of) but seems to want "evidence".

There was a Hosking piece in the Herald in which he said that the families claim that "all they want is to be listened to" whereas in fact "all they want is for people to do what they want" and they have been listened to ad infinitum.

I'm inclined to agree with him.

networkn

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#1687403 13-Dec-2016 22:09

On an unrelated note, I think I may have reached the point where if John "OMG" Campbell claims another story about a sparrow farting (or similarly stupidly unextraordinary) is "eeexxxxxttraordinary" I may no longer be able to contain my rage and those closest to me at the time may be in mortal danger. Yesterday it was a freaking power cut. Maybe the power never goes out where he has his head most of the time :)

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#1687409 13-Dec-2016 22:18

Radio NZ has the 'evidence' quote in an article:

http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national/320286/pike-river-families-reveal-'ultra-careful'-re-entry-plan

The quote seems entirely reasonable.

Geektastic

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#1687411 13-Dec-2016 22:22

networkn:

On an unrelated note, I think I may have reached the point where if John "OMG" Campbell claims another story about a sparrow farting (or similarly stupidly unextraordinary) is "eeexxxxxttraordinary" I may no longer be able to contain my rage and those closest to me at the time may be in mortal danger. Yesterday it was a freaking power cut. Maybe the power never goes out where he has his head most of the time :)

So with you on this. His faux earnestness is just creepy and once he decides that X is the way to get more self-publicity he just keeps on and on. His endless whining about the PR thing is so one sided it's not funny: he seems entirely convinced that a large company and the entire government are merely refusing to do what the families want just to irritate them and have no good reasons to support their stance at all.

I was pleased to see Bill English state unequivocally that he won't be sanctioning any attempt and that it was not a political decision (as if that needed saying). Less pleased to see the clueless Little trying to make it an election issue.

pipe60

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#1687414 13-Dec-2016 22:25

ajobbins:

Forgive my ignorance - but what would (currently) prevent a motivated family member from putting on a hard hat, a BA and walking as far as they can into the drift?

There is already a seal in place they are trying to get the final seal done.

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#1687519 14-Dec-2016 09:05

sbiddle:

As a few people have pointed out this afternoon if the mine was reopened and anybody was injured or killed then the directors of Solid Energy would be personally liable for jail time and or fine under the new health and safety laws introduced as a result of Pike River.

Maybe Solid Energy should sell it to the Pike River community for $1 and then they have to worry about it..

Regards,

Old3eyes

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MikeAqua

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#1687539 14-Dec-2016 09:20

ajobbins:

Forgive my ignorance - but what would (currently) prevent a motivated family member from putting on a hard hat, a BA and walking as far as they can into the drift?

Disclaimer: I'm trained in the use of BA and fully encapsulated gas suits in toxic environments and familiar with underwater re-breather apparatus but not anything more technical.

The families probably don't have access to the right gear.

At the moment there is supposedly very little oxygen in the mine and it's predominantly methane.

Bad: Methane is toxic by inhalation or absorption.

Good: Methane can't burn by itself, it needs oxygen.

Bad: Exhaust gasses from a regular BA set contain plenty of oxygen (from exhaled air).

So: You need BA, a fully encapsulated suit to protect your skin and a means of capturing exhaust oxygen. So now you need a re-breather BA set.

Getting highly technical. People use them but you would need to know your stuff. I would equate re-breather to parachutes. Great if set up correctly.

If set up wrong ...

Mike

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#1687544 14-Dec-2016 09:30

Based on discussions with people over the last few days along with plenty of comments in various places I think it's safe to say the general public consensus is no longer on the side of Monk or the families.

Yes losing family members is tough, and yes it was a tragedy but eventually you need to build a bridge and move on. It seems to me that many of those people seemingly don't want to do that.

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#1687628 14-Dec-2016 11:38

sbiddle:

Yes losing family members is tough, and yes it was a tragedy but eventually you need to build a bridge and move on. It seems to me that many of those people seemingly don't want to do that.

I can empathise with them. Having loved ones remains brought home does give closure. You see similar responses when people are lost at sea (e.g. Air Malaysia flight that went missing). Their loved ones want them home at almost any cost.

It must be agonising, knowing where their loved ones are but unable to 'ring them home'.

You can't expect people experiencing that kind of frustration to be rational. Which is why someone else needs to make the tough calls.

Mike

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#1687638 14-Dec-2016 11:59

sbiddle:

Based on discussions with people over the last few days along with plenty of comments in various places I think it's safe to say the general public consensus is no longer on the side of Monk or the families.

Yes losing family members is tough, and yes it was a tragedy but eventually you need to build a bridge and move on. It seems to me that many of those people seemingly don't want to do that.

Trying to think how I would feel in the situation, and I think I would want them to go in too. Less so for body recovery, but more so that the fact that I couldn't know more about what happened in there would drive me crazy. Perhaps there is an option to go back in with Robots and get a better idea of what happened and the state of things in there which may bring some closure.

I watched some video last night of the original robot entry. The video was grainy and very poor quality, but the tech has come a long way since this, including battery tech which may mean they can get further in, stay longer with better lighting and high quality video without putting further lives at risk.

But I guess rock falls are an issue, which may require some tunneling through - not sure if there is remote controllable equipment that could do it, and perhaps the atmosphere in there is hard to work with (E.g. no oxygen, no internal combustion engines).

Twitter: ajobbins

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#1687641 14-Dec-2016 12:13

MikeAqua:

sbiddle:

Yes losing family members is tough, and yes it was a tragedy but eventually you need to build a bridge and move on. It seems to me that many of those people seemingly don't want to do that.

I can empathise with them. Having loved ones remains brought home does give closure. You see similar responses when people are lost at sea (e.g. Air Malaysia flight that went missing). Their loved ones want them home at almost any cost.

It must be agonising, knowing where their loved ones are but unable to 'ring them home'.

You can't expect people experiencing that kind of frustration to be rational. Which is why someone else needs to make the tough calls.

I guess, if you are that kind of person. Makes not the slightest sense to me.

I don't even know what my mother did with my father's ashes so I guess I'm probably not that kind of person.

I think the British have a different relationship with death than Kiwis though. To us, for example, funerals are depressing things generally best avoided if at all possible and usually consist of half a dozen sad people standing in the drizzle of a Norman churchyard before heading off for an awkward drink and then home. Compare NZ where simply being aware someone was nice, regardless of whether you knew them or even met them, seems to be all that is required to go to their funeral. One of the local winemakers died here and apparently over 600 people went to the funeral - you'd need to be a pop star or Royalty to achieve that in Britain! I think my mother said that about 75 people went to my father's funeral and that would be considered a very large turnout for an 'ordinary' person IME.

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#1687671 14-Dec-2016 12:42

Millions of dollars is required to get even one person on to the drift. This is quite different to a missing airliner, here we know where the deceased are.

Lets seal it and create a suitable tombstone or memorial at the site so relatives can visit the mass grave. Then we can all move on.

Rikkitic

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#1687674 14-Dec-2016 12:57

The feelings of the families should be respected. Give them ownership of the mine and let them work out, at their own expense, whatever they want to do.

Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

Rikkitic

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#1687678 14-Dec-2016 13:01

networkn:

On an unrelated note, I think I may have reached the point where if John "OMG" Campbell claims another story about a sparrow farting (or similarly stupidly unextraordinary) is "eeexxxxxttraordinary" I may no longer be able to contain my rage and those closest to me at the time may be in mortal danger. Yesterday it was a freaking power cut. Maybe the power never goes out where he has his head most of the time :)

The anti-Campbell rhetoric gets a little tiresome. You are not saying anything new. Clearly you (and others) don't like him. Because you don't like him anything he says and any way he says it is going to irritate you. So switch him off, move on, and give it a rest. Not all of us share your opinion.

Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

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