Washing Machine faulty at 3.5 years old

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#1813707 6-Jul-2017 11:24

clive100:

In my recent experiences with repair technicians (so called) They do not have a good success rate of correct diagnosis first or sometimes second time around.

It's more like lets take an educated guess & fingers crossed we are right. Especially when the customer is picking up the repair tab.

I'm glad to hear the OP is going to end up with a serviceable machine at no money cost (it sounds like they may have lost some hair over this though).

Faults are easy to diagnose when it is a hard or total failure - the technician relies on the evidence in front of him, which is reliable and tangible, and the machine works once the fault is fixed.

When it comes to a "working but not quite right" fault, the technician relies heavily on what the owner/operator can tell him, and on prior experience (prior experience in this case being that it is usually dirty and needs a good huck-out). This is where an old-timer will out-perform a young-buck.

You can bet that in a 2.5 year old machine, not many have had bearings failure (yet). If the tech has a similar call out in a month on the same model, he's going to be thinking - "I've seen this before and the bearings in this model are not what they could/should be". So the OP's lousy experience will help the next owner to get to a solution faster.

networkn

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#1813712 6-Jul-2017 11:29

Hard work, but some of it was required. I think in the end the outcome was ok. Well done for your persistence. We had a similar issue with a F&P a few years ago. My wife fought with them for 18 months. I finally lost my temper with it and her and did some searching. Found the CEO's number and called him on his mobile. He was at golf. I spoke to him for 2 minutes, he said he was disgusted someone would need to go to enough effort to find his mobile number and call him. He said give me 5 minutes.

3 Minutes later, we got a call from the F&P service manager stammering verbally saying they were deploying a top of the line replacement to our house immediately, with a million apologies. It was delivered that afternoon, but the delivery company refused to collect it. I called the Service Manager back and told him he needed to collect it that PM or it was going on the Kerb. It was picked up 30 minutes later by him in a rented truck. The CEO called later that night to apologise and said his entire team were going into mandatory customer service review and training within 2 weeks as a result.

robjg63

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#1813716 6-Jul-2017 11:35

Good to see you are getting it sorted. It appears to be an unusual problem.

Would have expected the machine to make a hell of a noise if the bearing is stuffed like that - odd that didnt give it away.

Nothing is impossible for the man who doesn't have to do it himself - A. H. Weiler

marej

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#1813721 6-Jul-2017 11:48

There were conditions that they ignored though throughout the process.......the main one being and stated by both Able and Bosch that the seal was clean, in fact the Bosch technician described it as 'mint'. They kept on about fabric softener and cold water washes - and I told them that was not a factor. The other biggie was after all their cleaning instructions, the machine was still delivering greasy/scruddy clothes.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3130577/Washing-machines-cheaper-replace-fix-Manufacturers-accused-making-appliances-costly-complicated-repair.html

I do hope this experience will help others, but if you have to keep cleaning your machine now and you didnt used to when you live in the same house, I would really consider you might have a leaky drum.

Perhaps with the flooding of front loaders, the scrud issue has been normalised.

rb99

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#1813731 6-Jul-2017 12:06

I guess its a 'don't make em like they used too' thing. As I mentioned, our old washing machine lasted maybe 12 years plus with zero problems. We replaced our fridge at 20 years, still going strong except for the seals and ice perennial ice build up, replaced 20 year old convection microwave, when it finally expired. Can imagine how long the replacements will last. Phones - built in batteries, laptops ditto, soldered in everything, reparability rating 1 out of 5 (or 10). Spend thousands on cameras, waterproofing zero, phones, ditto.

“The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness.” -John Kenneth Galbraith

rb99

Bung

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#1813781 6-Jul-2017 13:00

marej:

There were conditions that they ignored though throughout the process.......the main one being and stated by both Able and Bosch that the seal was clean, in fact the Bosch technician described it as 'mint'. They kept on about fabric softener and cold water washes - and I told them that was not a factor. The other biggie was after all their cleaning instructions, the machine was still delivering greasy/scruddy clothes.

I do hope this experience will help others, but if you have to keep cleaning your machine now and you didnt used to when you live in the same house, I would really consider you might have a leaky drum.

I'm still having trouble with this story. The first seal above is presumably the front seal by the door. Unless you took the retaining spring off and looked at the back of it you wouldn't get any impression of how clean the space between the drums was. The back of the drum has a water seal followed by 2 sealed bearings spaced a short distance apart. Even if the water seal leaked I'm not sure that the seals on the bearing would let the lubricant out. I could see water getting into the bearing and ruining it.

Apparently the trend now is for the outer drum to be permanently clipped or plastic welded together. There are heroic methods of cutting the drum apart and gluing and bolting back together but I suspect they've confirmed it is still contaminating the wash even after cleaning and have replaced the drum because it will fix it regardless of cause.

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MikeAqua

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#1813837 6-Jul-2017 13:57

Our washing machine is a 2002 F&P smart drive.

We keep waiting for it to die.

No problems so far, apart from one scum issue last year which was easily resolved by running ceraclean.

Mike

marej

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#1813842 6-Jul-2017 14:04

MikeAqua:

Our washing machine is a 2002 F&P smart drive.

We keep waiting for it to die.

No problems so far, apart from one scum issue last year which was easily resolved by running ceraclean.

And this is what the consumer should expect. The Bosch technicians was telling me how bad these machines were, and when I told him I had one before the Bosch it never had a scrud issue in 10 years, he said that was an exception......I dont believe it.

To say a machine can be dirty but not be cleaned by the consumer easily - thats defective in my view.

rb99

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#1813848 6-Jul-2017 14:16

Was reading how in America (surprisingly) people are suing washing machine manufacturers because of mold growing in their machines.

“The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness.” -John Kenneth Galbraith

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Aredwood

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#1815750 8-Jul-2017 01:38

marej:

MikeAqua:

Our washing machine is a 2002 F&P smart drive.

We keep waiting for it to die.

No problems so far, apart from one scum issue last year which was easily resolved by running ceraclean.

And this is what the consumer should expect. The Bosch technicians was telling me how bad these machines were, and when I told him I had one before the Bosch it never had a scrud issue in 10 years, he said that was an exception......I dont believe it.

To say a machine can be dirty but not be cleaned by the consumer easily - thats defective in my view.

Just checked my F&P machine. The control panel says it was made in 1993, so it is approx 24 years old. It is really easy to check and clean the adjititor on those F&P. Lift out fabric softener dispenser, reach down, unscrew handle, then just lift out adjitior. I have never cleaned mine, but no scud. And on those machines, you can remove the top panel, and inner drum in less than 1/2 an hour. Although that is not intended to be a DIY job, (inner drum removal) it means a service tech can easily do a full scud clean without needing to remove the machine from the customers house. And it is definitely possible to do it yourself if you have appliance repair abilities.

My F&P has needed repairs. And I actually got given 2 of them for free (by the same person) both not working at the time. Both just had jammed drain pumps, but had been sitting for so long that even after getting the pumps going again, the pumps failed not long after as their seals had dried out. So 2x new pumps $85 each, And I had 2 working washingmachines. I plumbed both of them in together. as Having 2 washingmachines is really useful when you have lots of flatmates. Have since gone through 3 inlet valves, a set of bearings and shaft seals each, and a main controller. Inlet valves were approx $30 each, and I bought another F&P off trademe for $100 just to get it's controller. The newer F&P has a dead controller now. But since I don't have many flatmates anymore, I can't be bothered fixing the other F&P. It helps that I have the service manuals for them though.

The more I read on this thread, the more I will just keep on fixing my old F&P machines. Despite all of their flaws. Im just waiting for water to start leaking from the water cooled main controller in the 24 year old machine. It's not if but when that water will leak onto the circuit board that that carries 350VDC. And if I ever do need to buy a brand new washingmachine, I will now be seriously considering buying a F&P.

Fred99

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#1815774 8-Jul-2017 10:01

Aredwood:

The more I read on this thread, the more I will just keep on fixing my old F&P machines. Despite all of their flaws. Im just waiting for water to start leaking from the water cooled main controller in the 24 year old machine. It's not if but when that water will leak onto the circuit board that that carries 350VDC. And if I ever do need to buy a brand new washingmachine, I will now be seriously considering buying a F&P.

If it does crap out (controller board) and it's the green case model, PM me - I've got one sitting here that I tried to sell on TM with no takers - possibly because it was a reconditioned unit (professionally by Recon Modules). Free or exchange for bottle of wine, whatever. I did sell other salvageable parts with no problem.

I kept our F&P going from 1993 until a few months ago. Was a bit like "my grandfather's axe" though, had replaced many parts, the bearings and seals had gone again. Time to call it quits.

I did replace it with an F&P, actually a front-loader, after discussion with a few people in the repair trade. I understand that F&P had some "issues" up to 4 or 5 years ago, hopefully sorted now. They do seem to maintain parts availability long-term, although I do have an annoyance in that their parts folks won't automatically give me trade price for cash sale when I turn up wearing overalls like they used to do.

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marej

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#1819634 11-Jul-2017 15:38

I know I sound like a whinger, but Bosch told me today that there has been a 4-5 day shipping delay. they initially were expecting the part in yesterday. They initially took it away on 23/6......it took one week exactly for them to tell me it was a technical fault. Under CGA - is this 'repair time' reasonable.

What are shipping delays anyway......I take it to mean someone didnt approve a purchase order

richms

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#1819639 11-Jul-2017 15:44

No it will mean the couriers are being useless. I have had 4 days for next day from mighty ape to me, both on the shore, and about a 15 min drive away.

Richard rich.ms

mattwnz

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#1819645 11-Jul-2017 15:56

marej:

I know I sound like a whinger, but Bosch told me today that there has been a 4-5 day shipping delay. they initially were expecting the part in yesterday. They initially took it away on 23/6......it took one week exactly for them to tell me it was a technical fault. Under CGA - is this 'repair time' reasonable.

What are shipping delays anyway......I take it to mean someone didnt approve a purchase order

How do they expect you to wash your clothes while the machine is away? It is not as though people have a spare washing machine. I would have thought if they took it away, they would have replaced it with a loan machine. If you have to go to a laudrymat while it is being repaired, then that is potentially a consequential loss isn't it?.

clive100

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#1819652 11-Jul-2017 16:09

When I was in the service industry a few years ago now I remember that the Samsung policy was to replace a product (under warranty) if the repair was to take more than 30 days from the customer first contacting them whether it was the service companies fault or the supply of parts. Same would apply if they undertook to cover a repair under the CGA. No doubt Bosch will have their own policy on issues like this. Worth checking with them if the expected repair time in still open ended.

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