New Zealand plans to plant 100 million trees per year: Is this possible?

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2886 posts

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#1890989 26-Oct-2017 20:20

The Forest Owners Association press statement smells suspiciously like code for "we look forward to receiving government largesse to prop up our investments" to me. Presumably they will be looking for the government to help them overcome those "difficulties" with subsidies (either directly or in directly, in cash and/or in kind). All nicely dressed up as help and incentives, and doubtless all in the "national interest". Pretty much straight from the playbook of Rob Muldoon.

What I haven't seen anywhere is where the government pans to plant these trees, and what the purpose of the planting them actually is?

Geektastic

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#1890994 26-Oct-2017 20:25

We could plant willow coppice and build biomass powerstations instead.

wsnz

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#1890995 26-Oct-2017 20:25

tripper1000:

That's not a problem with geographically separated forests and diversification of species. Point is that if you're reforesting, trees you intend to harvest are smarter than trees you don't.

Geographical separation is not sufficiently effective for many diseases. For example, the jetstreams from Australia disperse infected seeds or spores across NZ.

frednz

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#1891152 27-Oct-2017 09:25

kryptonjohn:

They'll have to do the health and safety stuff for a start. Then they'll need to do the training on spacing, digging and planting the seedlings. All pretty straight forward. Then they'll need to do the hard physical work walking up steep rough ground carrying seedlings and a grubber and planting them. The candidates will also need to pass a drug test to work in forestry. They'll have to be fit and resilient.

Given the chance to sit on their arses smoking dope vs drawing a benefit vs getting up early and doing a hard day's work it doesn't surprise me that they can't get beneficiaries to do this work.

Well, perhaps benefits should not continue to be paid if beneficiaries are refusing to take up positions that they are capable of doing? Shouldn't the supervision of people on unemployment benefits be stepped up a notch?

Another possibility is for "suitable" prisoners to be selected for this work instead of them being so unproductive day after day.

frankv

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#1891156 27-Oct-2017 09:37

frednz:

Well, perhaps benefits should not continue to be paid if beneficiaries are refusing to take up positions that they are capable of doing? Shouldn't the supervision of people on unemployment benefits be stepped up a notch?

Another possibility is for "suitable" prisoners to be selected for this work instead of them being so unproductive day after day.

We should not be in the position of compelling people to work. Given that there are benefits to the country as well as to businesses from planting these trees, those benefits should be shared with the people doing the work.... i.e. the pay should be enough that people *want* the jobs.

If *you* don't want to go and do the job for the money offered, you're not in a position to judge anyone else who makes the same decision.

kryptonjohn

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#1891159 27-Oct-2017 09:40

frednz:

kryptonjohn:

They'll have to do the health and safety stuff for a start. Then they'll need to do the training on spacing, digging and planting the seedlings. All pretty straight forward. Then they'll need to do the hard physical work walking up steep rough ground carrying seedlings and a grubber and planting them. The candidates will also need to pass a drug test to work in forestry. They'll have to be fit and resilient.

Given the chance to sit on their arses smoking dope vs drawing a benefit vs getting up early and doing a hard day's work it doesn't surprise me that they can't get beneficiaries to do this work.

Well, perhaps benefits should not continue to be paid if beneficiaries are refusing to take up positions that they are capable of doing? Shouldn't the supervision of people on unemployment benefits be stepped up a notch?

Another possibility is for "suitable" prisoners to be selected for this work instead of them being so unproductive day after day.

You'd think so. Seems like it's an idea that's been kicked around for ages but never happens because either a) it's "slavery", or b) it costs more to run than the value of its benefits.

We've all heard the anecdotes about employers who either can't find workers or when they do they turn up for a week then disappear because it's "too hard". Well climbing up and down hills in the heat and in the rain carrying a sack of seedlings, digging and planting them would be reasonably hard work and I guarantee you a high proportion of the workers would soon fall away because this will be too hard.

kryptonjohn

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#1891161 27-Oct-2017 09:43

frankv:

frednz:

Well, perhaps benefits should not continue to be paid if beneficiaries are refusing to take up positions that they are capable of doing? Shouldn't the supervision of people on unemployment benefits be stepped up a notch?

Another possibility is for "suitable" prisoners to be selected for this work instead of them being so unproductive day after day.

We should not be in the position of compelling people to work. Given that there are benefits to the country as well as to businesses from planting these trees, those benefits should be shared with the people doing the work.... i.e. the pay should be enough that people *want* the jobs.

If *you* don't want to go and do the job for the money offered, you're not in a position to judge anyone else who makes the same decision.

All fair comment. However if there's work available to be done and beneficiaries or prisoners turn it down then perhaps there should be consequences for them in reduced benefits or privileges.

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frankv

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#1891204 27-Oct-2017 10:46

kryptonjohn:

However if there's work available to be done and beneficiaries or prisoners turn it down then perhaps there should be consequences for them in reduced benefits or privileges.

Getting somewhat OT, but...

I hope that you're presuming that there are privileges or unnecessary benefits being granted. However, my understanding is that the benefit is pretty much subsistence level.

cruxis

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#1892207 29-Oct-2017 18:14

Don't the Periodic Detention Crew still do this kind of work ? I remember friends getting $15000 worth of fines wiped for 8 months PD. Which = 32 days of detention or about 220 hours. Which in 1995 was a awesome deal. The work was planting trees on banks peninsula.

mugs2000

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#1892278 29-Oct-2017 20:25

Here is an Excel and open document spreadsheet depicting how many trees would have been planted beginning 30 October 2017 at the rate of 100 million per year.

https://jetz.co.nz/downloads

I am guessing it will lag initially until the program ramps up. After the first few months, who knows what will happen.

Geektastic

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#1892294 29-Oct-2017 21:08

cruxis:
Don't the Periodic Detention Crew still do this kind of work ? I remember friends getting $15000 worth of fines wiped for 8 months PD. Which = 32 days of detention or about 220 hours. Which in 1995 was a awesome deal. The work was planting trees on banks peninsula.

Dodgy friends you have.. !

MikeAqua

7773 posts

Uber Geek

#1893663 1-Nov-2017 14:35

I planted trees on our farm as a kid (pine and gum). We planted at about 1,000 per hectare, then thinned to 600.

Using 1,000 trees per hectare - 1 million hectares are needed to plant 1 billion trees.

There is plenty of marginal land (too steep/wet/ashy/sandy/salty) that could be planted with significant overall environmental benefits. A lot of dodgy land is owned by Landcorp. For privately held land, first the government would have to buy it. Or pay/force landowners to plant etc.

It's not clear to me whether the 1b trees are to be natives or exotics? Natives would be a better permanent solution, exotics will grow faster initially.

Some exotics like poplar can be planted by cutting branches from a living donor tree and planting them. For in-accessible country you can even drop them out of aircraft.

You can also make seed balls for natives and fire these onto scrub covered land. The trees that germinate eventually find their way through the canopy and take over. Gorse and broom are good nursery plants because they fix nitrogen and die once completely shaded. You could spray seed balls out of a helicopter just like bait pellets.

If anyone is looking for a tree to plant on marginal land consider Eucalyptus nittens aka 'firewood gum'. You plant it out initially and after a couple of years you thin. After 5 - 10 years you can harvest mature trees. If you cut them correctly, 90% will regrow from the stump. Great firewood - use yourself or sell trimmed logs to a firewood merchant.

Mike

SaltyNZ

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#1893667 1-Nov-2017 14:45

MikeAqua:

You could spray seed balls out of a helicopter just like bait pellets.

Where would one sign up for such a job?

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kryptonjohn

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#1893669 1-Nov-2017 14:53

SaltyNZ:

MikeAqua:

You could spray seed balls out of a helicopter just like bait pellets.

Where would one sign up for such a job?

First get 500-1000 PIC turbine hours, @SaltyNZ!

MikeAqua

7773 posts

Uber Geek

#1893671 1-Nov-2017 14:57

SaltyNZ:

MikeAqua:

You could spray seed balls out of a helicopter just like bait pellets.

Where would one sign up for such a job?

Whoever does the 1080 now would be competent to spray seed balls and the same equipment could be used. My only personal experience with seed-balls was limited to using a slingshot on a friends property but we were only covering a small area.

Mike

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