Is there Life on Mars?

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#2034281 12-Jun-2018 11:50

Finding life on Mars, unless they break physics, won't change science or scientific facts.

Biblical god argument - life on Mars AFAIK doesn't contradict anything in the bible that should break theology. Wasn't there giants (nephilim) roaming on earth that were the product of male gods and female humans? They were wiped out by Noah's flood. That is extraterrestial stuff.

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#2034282 12-Jun-2018 11:51

Hammerer:

Aha, now I understand you. Maybe I shouldn't have used that approach. I was only criticising the overstatement of certainty in the context of lack of data. As I said "Both are tenuous conclusions not based on the data." There is no evidence that this is true except that we have life on earth that is intelligent. It is conjecture to say that any alien life will also prove alien intelligent life.

It is much easier to see the assertion of certainty doesn't hold up in the negative as that is normally the case because, by definition, there is no evidence. I wasn't trying to say that the two statements were "equivalent", i.e. that A therefore B is the same as not A therefore not B. I was simply saying that lack of evidence precludes such strong assertions.

I based my sweeping assertion on what I still feel is a highly likely probability. At the moment we only have terrestrial evolution to extrapolate from so the evidence is limited. It is impossible to truly wrap our minds around the real size of the Universe, but it might actually be close to infinite. The numbers of stars and planets cannot be grasped. For all practical purposes, they are limitless. If we find evidence of any kind of extraterrestrial life, that makes it almost a certainty that life is widespread in the Universe. If it is, the numbers make it extremely likely that it would evolve intelligence many times over, as it has here in just 4 billion years. I don't see what is wrong with that logic, but I am happy to stand corrected.

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#2034283 12-Jun-2018 11:54

Batman:

Finding life on Mars, unless they break physics, won't change science or scientific facts.

Biblical god argument - life on Mars AFAIK doesn't contradict anything in the bible that should break theology. Wasn't there giants roaming on earth that were the product of gods and humans? They were wiped out by Noah's flood. That is as alien as it gets in this theology.

of course if they find God on Mars the S could hit the proverbial F

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

Batman

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#2034285 12-Jun-2018 11:58

MikeB4:

Batman:

Finding life on Mars, unless they break physics, won't change science or scientific facts.

Biblical god argument - life on Mars AFAIK doesn't contradict anything in the bible that should break theology. Wasn't there giants roaming on earth that were the product of gods and humans? They were wiped out by Noah's flood. That is as alien as it gets in this theology.

of course if they find God on Mars the S could hit the proverbial F

Dude, I have friends who believe that the earth is hollow and that some weird things are going on below us. Can't remember much more than that. Don't know if they're religious or not.

MikeB4

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#2034288 12-Jun-2018 12:00

Batman:

MikeB4:

Batman:

Finding life on Mars, unless they break physics, won't change science or scientific facts.

Biblical god argument - life on Mars AFAIK doesn't contradict anything in the bible that should break theology. Wasn't there giants roaming on earth that were the product of gods and humans? They were wiped out by Noah's flood. That is as alien as it gets in this theology.

of course if they find God on Mars the S could hit the proverbial F

Dude, I have friends who believe that the earth is hollow and that some weird things are going on below us. Can't remember much more than that. Don't know if they're religious or not.

It's the 10 foot lizard people that live under the flat Earth

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

MikeAqua

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#2034289 12-Jun-2018 12:00

Fred99:

MikeAqua:

The best information we have suggests that life can arise in particular conditions that occur or have occurred on earth. But ... we don't have direct evidence that life can spontaneously arise.

What do you mean?

Without direct observation of abiogenesis occuring in real time without influence of a creator in any way, creationists will always have a way out. God could have always directed that particular cosmic ray or lightning bolt that sparked the reaction etc.

In total absence of evidence of any god, the evidence that we do have that life arose spontaneously on Earth is extremely compelling and is about as direct as we'll ever likely get. Finding life elsewhere would just make the biblical god argument less believable than it already is.

I agree the evidence we have is compelling but it's circumstantial. No-one has yet made life in experiments.

I'm saying we could be wrong about life spontaneously arising on earth. I don't think the theories of spontaneous development of life on earth are wrong, but I accept they could be.

Alternate (and less likely) theories might include transport from another planet via natural processes (e.g. resting stages of bacteria transported in an icy meteor) or transplantation by intelligent extra terrestrial life forms (even less likely).

My views have nothing to do with any religious perspective, just a healthy scientific scepticism and general aversion to absolute facts.

Mike

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#2034291 12-Jun-2018 12:02

Batman:

Dude, I have friends who believe that the earth is hollow and that some weird things are going on below us. Can't remember much more than that. Don't know if they're religious or not.

It is hollow - filled with sticky liquid and a solid, chewy centre like some sort of cosmic confectionery item.

Mike

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#2034300 12-Jun-2018 12:15

MikeAqua:

Fred99:

MikeAqua:

The best information we have suggests that life can arise in particular conditions that occur or have occurred on earth. But ... we don't have direct evidence that life can spontaneously arise.

What do you mean?

Without direct observation of abiogenesis occuring in real time without influence of a creator in any way, creationists will always have a way out. God could have always directed that particular cosmic ray or lightning bolt that sparked the reaction etc.

In total absence of evidence of any god, the evidence that we do have that life arose spontaneously on Earth is extremely compelling and is about as direct as we'll ever likely get. Finding life elsewhere would just make the biblical god argument less believable than it already is.

I agree the evidence we have is compelling but it's circumstantial. No-one has yet made life in experiments.

I'm saying we could be wrong about life spontaneously arising on earth. I don't think the theories of spontaneous development of life on earth are wrong, but I accept they could be.

Alternate (and less likely) theories might include transport from another planet via natural processes (e.g. resting stages of bacteria transported in an icy meteor) or transplantation by intelligent extra terrestrial life forms (even less likely).

My views have nothing to do with any religious perspective, just a healthy scientific scepticism and general aversion to absolute facts.

Nothing can be more correct that this post.

Hammerer

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#2034301 12-Jun-2018 12:20

MikeB4:

Batman:

Dude, I have friends who believe that the earth is hollow and that some weird things are going on below us. Can't remember much more than that. Don't know if they're religious or not.

It's the 10 foot lizard people that live under the flat Earth

Quite likely to be Vernians on a round Earth.

Fred99

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#2034371 12-Jun-2018 12:58

I unset the "set answer" someone did - because it certainly was not an answer to the topic title. Not even close.

SepticSceptic

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#2034548 12-Jun-2018 16:40

MikeB4:

Batman:

Finding life on Mars, unless they break physics, won't change science or scientific facts.

Biblical god argument - life on Mars AFAIK doesn't contradict anything in the bible that should break theology. Wasn't there giants roaming on earth that were the product of gods and humans? They were wiped out by Noah's flood. That is as alien as it gets in this theology.

of course if they find God on Mars the S could hit the proverbial F

Ironically, I'm currently reading a novel "Jesus On Mars", by Philip Jose Farmer ....

And yep, the proverbial S hit the fan ...

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#2034561 12-Jun-2018 17:32

I'm writing (very slowly) a book in which the early stages of the story take place on Mars.

Mike

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#2034641 12-Jun-2018 21:15

MikeAqua:

I'm writing (very slowly) a book in which the early stages of the story take place on Mars.

Could the topic of this thread be a prequel?

Batman

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#2034644 12-Jun-2018 21:23

Sorry for the spoiler but I've already seen the movie! It had Matt Damon in it.

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#2034730 12-Jun-2018 23:29

MikeAqua:
Fred99:

MikeAqua:

The best information we have suggests that life can arise in particular conditions that occur or have occurred on earth. But ... we don't have direct evidence that life can spontaneously arise.

What do you mean?

Without direct observation of abiogenesis occuring in real time without influence of a creator in any way, creationists will always have a way out. God could have always directed that particular cosmic ray or lightning bolt that sparked the reaction etc.

In total absence of evidence of any god, the evidence that we do have that life arose spontaneously on Earth is extremely compelling and is about as direct as we'll ever likely get. Finding life elsewhere would just make the biblical god argument less believable than it already is.

I agree the evidence we have is compelling but it's circumstantial. No-one has yet made life in experiments.

I'm saying we could be wrong about life spontaneously arising on earth. I don't think the theories of spontaneous development of life on earth are wrong, but I accept they could be.

Alternate (and less likely) theories might include transport from another planet via natural processes (e.g. resting stages of bacteria transported in an icy meteor) or transplantation by intelligent extra terrestrial life forms (even less likely).

My views have nothing to do with any religious perspective, just a healthy scientific scepticism and general aversion to absolute facts.

I'm with you here. I have a healthy dose of scientific scepticism in my thinking also, along the lines of:

1. The highest form of intelligence scientifically proven to exist (humans) has not been able to fabricate or produce "life" therefore there must be by deduction a higher form of intelligence able to produce/fabricate/give life.

2. We as the highest form of scientifically observable intelligence are constrained to use dimensional analysis to observe phenomena, namely the space-time continuum, therefore one could conclude that the higher form of intelligence may not be measurable/observable in space-time to humans.

Best analogy I have here is the wind. You can not directly see the wind. You can use observation of influence on things you can see move or respond to it, to measure it. We have no way of directly quantifying the higher form of intelligence, but can accept it's existence by evidence of effect. (That life exists for starters, then that it's self sustaining, etc.).

Then you can start arguing about what life means I suppose...

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