Titanic tourist sub missing

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#3093711 22-Jun-2023 21:49

eracode:
The whole point of banging every 30 mins is that it’s an accepted marine rescue protocol. Banging at random times and more frequently makes the noise less distinguishable from background noise so would not be a smart idea.

I'm more inclined to go with the wishful-thinking pointed out by others in the cited sources. What they're hearing isn't like what you'd hear if you're standing on the other side of a wall that someone's thumping against but a slight disturbance in the masses of background noise that are present down there 24/7, and even then what's being processed is a bunch of weak electrical signals mixed in with other electrical signals. Like running ground-penetrating radar at the absolute limits of its range, eventually you start pulling phantom signals out of the noise. In this case, is there something else that happens every 30 minutes? Measurement of battery charge remaining? Reinit of DSPs to get rid of accumulated errors? Reset of op-amps to recalibrate? There could be all sorts of things causing this.

eracode

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#3093716 22-Jun-2023 22:07

neb:
eracode:

The whole point of banging every 30 mins is that it’s an accepted marine rescue protocol. Banging at random times and more frequently makes the noise less distinguishable from background noise so would not be a smart idea.

I'm more inclined to go with the wishful-thinking pointed out by others in the cited sources. What they're hearing isn't like what you'd hear if you're standing on the other side of a wall that someone's thumping against but a slight disturbance in the masses of background noise that are present down there 24/7, and even then what's being processed is a bunch of weak electrical signals mixed in with other electrical signals. Like running ground-penetrating radar at the absolute limits of its range, eventually you start pulling phantom signals out of the noise. In this case, is there something else that happens every 30 minutes? Measurement of battery charge remaining? Reinit of DSPs to get rid of accumulated errors? Reset of op-amps to recalibrate? There could be all sorts of things causing this.

You’re missing my point. I wasn’t expressing any opinion at all on whether the noise was man-made or not - who knows? I was simply saying that if you are in a disabled sub, it’s smarter (and an accepted practice) to bang every 30 mins (on the hour and half-hour) rather than randomly and/or more frequently - as suggested by an earlier poster. That’s all.

Sometimes I just sit and think. Other times I just sit.

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#3093740 23-Jun-2023 06:45

It's been widely reported they have found a debris field and a press conference will be held at 7am NZT.

Obviously, there will not be any survivors.

I guess now the press will have a field day trying to hype up the blame game. Vultures!

Batman

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#3093744 23-Jun-2023 07:16

the first machine that's not a sphere = implosion

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/missing-titanic-submarine-us-coast-guard-says-debris-field-has-been-found/FHHVJRG6QNB2FOWDXUHQ3RGWRI/

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#3093751 23-Jun-2023 07:34

networkn: It's been widely reported they have found a debris field and a press conference will be held at 7am NZT.

Obviously, there will not be any survivors.

I guess now the press will have a field day trying to hype up the blame game. Vultures!

Maybe it's exactly what's needed to stop similar gung ho "inpirational" ventures. The NASA frozen ring inquiry showed what happens when management push forward ignoring the obvious.

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#3093765 23-Jun-2023 08:13

Bung:

Maybe it's exactly what's needed to stop similar gung ho "inpirational" ventures. The NASA frozen ring inquiry showed what happens when management push forward ignoring the obvious.

The fact that this appears to be outside any jurisdiction made it hard to get them to take safety seriously.

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#3093786 23-Jun-2023 09:01

I'm not at all surprised it was an implosion, but I am very surprised that they found debris on the ocean floor so quickly (or at all). It was apparently found 1600m away from the Titanic wreckage, which is a fair distance when searching at that depth I would have thought (assuming the used they Titanic wreck as a starting point).

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#3093791 23-Jun-2023 09:06

Paul1977:

I'm not at all surprised it was an implosion, but I am very surprised that they found debris on the ocean floor so quickly (or at all). It was apparently found 1600m away from the Titanic wreckage, which is a fair distance when searching at that depth I would have thought (assuming the used they Titanic wreck as a starting point).

In my own little imagination I assumed that the seabed around the Titanic would have been sonar mapped to within inches over the years, and that it would have all been digitised, and that it would have been a straightforward issue to tow sonar over it again and compare for differences.

Either not so, or the required assets to do the re-scan were too far away.

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#3093794 23-Jun-2023 09:07

It was a totally unnecessary trip to visit a mass grave that became their own grave. I wish media would stop praising them as explorers and romanticising an extremely dangerous pleasure pursuit.

The thought of being bolted into a small vessel to travel a couple miles under water into blackness is haunting. I think of their remaining families probably wondering, 'for what.' Especially sad for the young one.

One can only hope their death was sooner than later and they didn’t have to suffer days of fear.

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#3093803 23-Jun-2023 09:14

johno1234:

In my own little imagination I assumed that the seabed around the Titanic would have been sonar mapped to within inches over the years, and that it would have all been digitised, and that it would have been a straightforward issue to tow sonar over it again and compare for differences.

Either not so, or the required assets to do the re-scan were too far away.

Could be, I don't know enough about the technology they use. My imagination had the robotic submersible manually searching the area, your idea probably makes more sense. I'm sure we'll find out in the coming days/weeks.

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#3093806 23-Jun-2023 09:17

Eva888: It was a totally unnecessary trip to visit a mass grave that became their own grave. I wish media would stop praising them as explorers and romanticising an extremely dangerous pleasure pursuit.

The thought of being bolted into a small vessel to travel a couple miles under water into blackness is haunting. I think of their remaining families probably wondering, 'for what.' Especially sad for the young one.

One can only hope their death was sooner than later and they didn’t have to suffer days of fear.

If you've seen a gas tank on train carriage implode at sea level I think it's fair to assume that they didn't suffer.

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#3093809 23-Jun-2023 09:18

New York Times: Extreme Travel Rescue Operations Are Vast in Scale and Cost. Who Foots the Bill Is Murky.

The enormous response has involved the U.S., Canada and France. It is unclear whether taxpayers in those countries will be paying for it.

The ongoing search and rescue effort for the missing Titan submersible with five people on board, involving a huge response from American, Canadian and French authorities, is vast in scale, including both the U.S. Navy and the Coast Guard.

The expense for such an endeavor is likely to be equally great, and it is unclear whether taxpayers in the countries involved, ultimately, will be required to pay it. The passengers aboard the submersible paid $250,000 each for the experience of diving to the Titanic.

“These people paid a lot of money to do something extraordinarily risky and hard to recover from,” said Chris Boyer, the executive director of the National Association for Search and Rescue, a nonprofit that focuses on wilderness rescues. The rescue mission, he said, would “probably cost millions.”

In the United States, search and rescue efforts — who conducts them and who pays for them — depend on where you get lost, Mr. Boyer said. Some states, like New Hampshire, charge individuals for rescues if the people are determined to have been reckless.

Cynthia Hernandez, a spokeswoman for the National Park Service, said in a statement that the agency does not charge for search and rescue operations that occur within its parks because it considers them a public service. The park service conducted 3,428 search and rescues last year.

But, she said, when the cost of search and rescue efforts “crosses a certain threshold, funds may be diverted from N.P.S. funds for other types of programs or projects.”

It is unknown whether OceanGate Expeditions, the company that provided the excursion to the Titanic ruins, required its participants to sign up for any trip insurance.
...

kingdragonfly

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#3093810 23-Jun-2023 09:21

Insider: The company that operates the missing Titanic sub is likely protected from future lawsuits thanks to the 'tons of risk' that passengers incurred, legal experts say

Legal experts say OceanGate is likely protected from lawsuits related to the Titan's disappearance.

Passengers on the missing sub signed a waiver that mentioned the risk of death several times.

But that waiver could be challenged if OceanGate is found to be operationally negligent, an expert said.

Paul1977

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#3093814 23-Jun-2023 09:27

Eva888: It was a totally unnecessary trip to visit a mass grave that became their own grave. I wish media would stop praising them as explorers and romanticising an extremely dangerous pleasure pursuit.

The thought of being bolted into a small vessel to travel a couple miles under water into blackness is haunting. I think of their remaining families probably wondering, 'for what.' Especially sad for the young one.

One can only hope their death was sooner than later and they didn’t have to suffer days of fear.

Unnecessary, but I can understand the desire to do it if you have the financial means.

From the interviews I've seen discussing the possibilities (before the debris was found), an implosion probably means it would have been over before they even knew something had gone wrong.

What I'll be interested to find out is who has jurisdiction over investigating an incident like this that happened in international waters?

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#3093817 23-Jun-2023 09:28

Eva888: One can only hope their death was sooner than later and they didn’t have to suffer days of fear.

The current scenario proposed was that there was catastrophic failure at the time when the vessel stopped sending communications, between 1:45 and 2:00 into the mission. At that depth there wouldn't have been any suffering. It is a small but significant mercy that they probably weren't aware of what was happening.

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