Pike River - Seal or recovery?

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Networkn
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#1687682 14-Dec-2016 13:10

Rikkitic:

networkn:

On an unrelated note, I think I may have reached the point where if John "OMG" Campbell claims another story about a sparrow farting (or similarly stupidly unextraordinary) is "eeexxxxxttraordinary" I may no longer be able to contain my rage and those closest to me at the time may be in mortal danger. Yesterday it was a freaking power cut. Maybe the power never goes out where he has his head most of the time :)

The anti-Campbell rhetoric gets a little tiresome. You are not saying anything new. Clearly you (and others) don't like him. Because you don't like him anything he says and any way he says it is going to irritate you. So switch him off, move on, and give it a rest. Not all of us share your opinion.

LOL Pot, Kettle, Black! Your incessant Anti-Establishment sentiments annoys me, so I'll agree to stop mine if you do yours?

Geektastic

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#1687695 14-Dec-2016 13:32

Rikkitic:

The feelings of the families should be respected. Give them ownership of the mine and let them work out, at their own expense, whatever they want to do.

Why should they be (any more than they already have been)?

If we follow this example, the wreck of the Titanic should have been given to the families of those who perished when she sank.

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#1687696 14-Dec-2016 13:34

I am not anti-establishment, just anti-stupidity and dishonesty. If I think something is wrong, I say so. I don't think that is the same as constantly telling us how much you dislike John Campbell. Everyone knows that by now. Tell us about something else you dislike instead.

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Pumpedd

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#1687698 14-Dec-2016 13:39

Rikkitic:

The feelings of the families should be respected. Give them ownership of the mine and let them work out, at their own expense, whatever they want to do.

Stupidest idea I have ever seen.

Rikkitic

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#1687699 14-Dec-2016 13:44

That doesn't explain much.

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sbiddle

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#1687700 14-Dec-2016 13:45

Rikkitic:

The feelings of the families should be respected. Give them ownership of the mine and let them work out, at their own expense, whatever they want to do.

This probably is the best approach, but I can't see them wanting ownership because it comes with all the H&S obligations as well.

I see a lot of irony in the H&S changes that were demanded because of Pike River now posing a serious brick wall when it comes to re-entering the mine. There is no opting out of these, so ultimately whoever is in charge will be held liable if somebody is injured or killed.

networkn

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#1687705 14-Dec-2016 13:47

I wonder if it's an option to give them a 1 year lease of the mine so they have 12 months to get it done.

The problem then becomes political. Esp if someone gets hurt.

I just can't see any win-win way to get this done.

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Rikkitic

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#1687711 14-Dec-2016 13:55

The health and safety obligations are a separate issue, but I don't understand otherwise what the objection is to a competent adult, who understands the risks, volunteering to enter the mine. This kind of thing is not unknown elsewhere. If someone is willing to take the risk, and to agree that no rescue is to be attempted if something goes wrong, isn't it that person's business?

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networkn

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#1687715 14-Dec-2016 14:00

Rikkitic:

The health and safety obligations are a separate issue, but I don't understand otherwise what the objection is to a competent adult, who understands the risks, volunteering to enter the mine. This kind of thing is not unknown elsewhere. If someone is willing to take the risk, and to agree that no rescue is to be attempted if something goes wrong, isn't it that person's business?

Did you read any of the other comments? It's *not* a separate issue, it's an entirely singular issue, you *cannot* opt out of those standards, so it's not possible, willing or otherwise to go in and for people not to be held accountable for injury or death.

Sometimes people need to be protected from themselves. Even if the families agreed to wear the responsibility, it's questionable they could pay the fines, it's pretty clear they aren't in an emotional state to make that decision, and even more it's never going to eventuate that if there was an issue, there wouldn't need to be an attempt at a rescue.

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#1687719 14-Dec-2016 14:05

Rikkitic:

The health and safety obligations are a separate issue, but I don't understand otherwise what the objection is to a competent adult, who understands the risks, volunteering to enter the mine. This kind of thing is not unknown elsewhere. If someone is willing to take the risk, and to agree that no rescue is to be attempted if something goes wrong, isn't it that person's business?

Pre Pike River, yes. Now, no.

If you haven't read the new H&S regulations I suggest you do. The new law ensures the top of the food chain is to blame, and is a result of those unhappy that ultimately nobody was accountable for Pike River.

Some may argue a director of a company being in jail because an employee who they have no direct control over suffering an injury or death is very much over the top, but that's what the law now says.

If anybody was to enter Pike River now and be injured or killed somebody has to be held accountable, and would be under our new H&S laws.

networkn

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#1687722 14-Dec-2016 14:11

sbiddle:

Rikkitic:

The health and safety obligations are a separate issue, but I don't understand otherwise what the objection is to a competent adult, who understands the risks, volunteering to enter the mine. This kind of thing is not unknown elsewhere. If someone is willing to take the risk, and to agree that no rescue is to be attempted if something goes wrong, isn't it that person's business?

Pre Pike River, yes. Now, no.

If you haven't read the new H&S regulations I suggest you do. The new law ensures the top of the food chain is to blame, and is a result of those unhappy that ultimately nobody was accountable for Pike River.

Some may argue a director of a company being in jail because an employee who they have no direct control over suffering an injury or death is very much over the top, but that's what the law now says.

If anybody was to enter Pike River now and be injured or killed somebody has to be held accountable, and would be under our new H&S laws.

Which is why, understandably, the directors want it sealed so no-one decides to get any hair brained ideas of a vigilante rescue.

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#1687724 14-Dec-2016 14:16

I personally think many aspects of the new law are way over the top, but at the end of the day people got what they wanted - they wanted accountability for Pike River but feel the law didn't deliver that. The law will now ensure that somebody will ultimately be held accountable for any injury or death, even if the incident may have had nothing to do with them.

networkn

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#1687725 14-Dec-2016 14:17

sbiddle:

I personally think many aspects of the new law are way over the top, but at the end of the day people got what they wanted - they wanted accountability for Pike River but feel the law didn't deliver that. The law will now ensure that somebody will ultimately be held accountable for any injury or death, even if the incident may have had nothing to do with them.

Agreed, it's lunacy. Welcome to the New World!

Pumpedd

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#1687728 14-Dec-2016 14:24

I cant help wondering if Angry Andrew isnt one of these non de plumes based on the standard of ideas here.

Doesnt the mine sit under a national park? If it doesnt it should be sealed and returned to the people of NZ with the appropriate memorial. I suspect our great media are fueling the relatives to keep this debate alive.

My parents are entombed in a bland and horrid piece of dirt in Southern NZ. I myself wish to be burned to ashes and dumped wherever it deemed appropriate at the time. Imo where these folk are buried is probably as good a place as any to be left to rest.

These people who died probably a horrid death are entombed in a place together with their friends/colleagues and probably would be happy with that if they could speak.

Why on earth would anyone want to spend millions of dollars to risk their own lives to do what????

Wouldnt it be a major operation costing many many millions of dollars to bring out the skeletal remains of those who died. It would be almost an archaeological dig taking many people many months in dangerous conditions?

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#1687735 14-Dec-2016 14:37

There are many places where the souls who have perished are left where they perished. The many warships and merchant marine ships from the two world wars are an example the oceans are their field of honour. The USS Arizona in Pearl Harbour still has the remains of lost sailors sealed in her hull. There is a permanent memorial above. The mine should be sealed and the site become a permanent memorial and the ground tapu.

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