The Discrimination Thread

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#2687803 7-Apr-2021 11:51

There is not such thing as casual or mild racism. It is racism. Imitating a persons accent in this manner is racism. Making, for want of a better word, 'fun' of another's accent is racism. Racism is cumulative and it is very damaging both individually and to the wider community. Trying to trivialise acts of racism is racism. It is not hard to treat ALL people as equals and not objects of ridicule and bigotry even if the target brushes it off you have no idea of the pain you inflicting and the damage you are inflicting due to a life time of this behaviour. The announcer let his real self slip when he slumped into his stupidity. It was not trivial it was transmitted over several media therefore the impact had a wide audience. It is very sad that folks cannot recognise this. Have the events of the 21st century to date not taught you what the harm of racism does to individuals and societies?

Some have asked for education, here goes, its not hard...."prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism by an individual, community, or institution against a person or people on the basis of their membership of a particular racial or ethnic group, typically one that is a minority or marginalized."

networkn

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#2687820 7-Apr-2021 11:57

MikeB4:

There is not such thing as casual or mild racism. It is racism. Imitating a persons accent in this manner is racism. Making, for want of a better word, 'fun' of another's accent is racism. Racism is cumulative and it is very damaging both individually and to the wider community. Trying to trivialise acts of racism is racism. It is not hard to treat ALL people as equals and not objects of ridicule and bigotry even if the target brushes it off you have no idea of the pain you inflicting and the damage you are inflicting due to a life time of this behaviour. The announcer let his real self slip when he slumped into his stupidity. It was not trivial it was transmitted over several media therefore the impact had a wide audience. It is very sad that folks cannot recognise this. Have the events of the 21st century to date not taught you what the harm of racism does to individuals and societies?

Some have asked for education, here goes, its not hard...."prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism by an individual, community, or institution against a person or people on the basis of their membership of a particular racial or ethnic group, typically one that is a minority or marginalized."

I actively refute your suggestion that all racism is equal and that punishment for it should be handled exactly the same way.

If there can be no forgiveness and no scale of the consequences, we should introduce racism punishment as a capital crime and be done with it.

MikeB4

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#2687824 7-Apr-2021 11:59

networkn:

I actively refute your suggestion that all racism is equal and that punishment for it should be handled exactly the same way.

If there can be no forgiveness and no scale of the consequences, we should introduce racism punishment as a capital crime and be done with it.

That is not what I said

networkn

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#2687826 7-Apr-2021 12:03

MikeB4:

That is not what I said

That is exactly what you said:

There is not such thing as casual or mild racism

MikeB4

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#2687827 7-Apr-2021 12:06

@networkn you are cherry picking words to suit your narrative. You are being disingenuous.

freitasm

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#2687832 7-Apr-2021 12:10

Come on folks. This is turning into bickering now.

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#2687834 7-Apr-2021 12:11

MikeB4:

There is not such thing as casual or mild racism. It is racism. Imitating a persons accent in this manner is racism. Making, for want of a better word, 'fun' of another's accent is racism. Racism is cumulative and it is very damaging both individually and to the wider community. Trying to trivialise acts of racism is racism. It is not hard to treat ALL people as equals and not objects of ridicule and bigotry even if the target brushes it off you have no idea of the pain you inflicting and the damage you are inflicting due to a life time of this behaviour. The announcer let his real self slip when he slumped into his stupidity. It was not trivial it was transmitted over several media therefore the impact had a wide audience. It is very sad that folks cannot recognise this. Have the events of the 21st century to date not taught you what the harm of racism does to individuals and societies?

Some have asked for education, here goes, its not hard...."prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism by an individual, community, or institution against a person or people on the basis of their membership of a particular racial or ethnic group, typically one that is a minority or marginalized."

OK - time for me to wade in here. I've held my tongue long enough, not wanting to come in here as a middle-aged white guy with an opinion that will likely be branded racist.

I'm English by birth and a NZer by way of growing up here and living as a kiwi over the last 48 years (I'm older than 48, btw). My dad is Irish.

Irish jokes are commonplace - including puns around Irish idiocy being used as business names and commonly held beliefs that the Irish are heavy drinkers, pranksters, thick as two short planks and believe in fairies.

Irish Accents are poorly imitated. So are English accents. I find it incredibly irritating to hear people do bad accents. Are these people racially abusing me? Based on your assessment - yes. Absolutely.

Should anyone who takes the p*ss out of the English or Irish accent or mannerisms be sacked, vilified and held up for public flogging? I think not. Maybe educate them of the facts that some people will be offended, others may not be and yet others might be very highly offended by their actions, words and beliefs.

To say that all transgressions, large or small, should be punished equally says more about you, your experiences and your ongoing pain from those experiences than it does about equality, fairness and reducing harm. I'm as much a victim of racist behaviour as anyone - but I don't expect the whole world to be severely punished for it. I would expect, at the very least, an attempt at understanding how it affects people, why it affects people and how (and why) to change the behaviours.

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MikeB4

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#2687840 7-Apr-2021 12:26

OK I will try this once more. There is no grading to racism. I NEVER said that all events should have the same sanctions. If the interviewer did his racism in a restaurant or bar then he could or should be shown the door. If he did it on a plane then the airline could or should evict him from the aircraft at the next opportunity. This guy engaged his racism on a national TV network with a potential audience of several hundred thousand. I would assume he had read his employment agreement, the companies code of conduct and be aware of the broadcasting standards. He should not remain in that position.

As for the educating. Racism especially over the last four and a half years has very much being in the lime light and certainly on national television including this guys employers network. To not be aware or claim to be aware of what constitutes racism and what is decent human behaviour after all this is simply something that I cannot believe.

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#2687843 7-Apr-2021 12:29

MikeB4:

OK I will try this once more. There is no grading to racism. I NEVER said that all events should have the same sanctions. If the interviewer did his racism in a restaurant or bar then he could or should be shown the door. If he did it on a plane then the airline could or should evict him from the aircraft at the next opportunity. This guy engaged his racism on a national TV network with a potential audience of several hundred thousand. I would assume he had read his employment agreement, the companies code of conduct and be aware of the broadcasting standards. He should not remain in that position.

As for the educating. Racism especially over the last four and a half years has very much being in the lime light and certainly on national television including this guys employers network. To not be aware or claim to be aware of what constitutes racism and what is decent human behaviour after all this is simply something that I cannot believe.

So you're saying that if he took the same tack and put on a rubbish English accent while performing his duties as a broadcaster, he should be publicly flogged and sacked?

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#2687844 7-Apr-2021 12:30

MikeB4:

@networkn you are cherry picking words to suit your narrative. You are being disingenuous.

@MikeB4 whether you intend it or not, you do come across (to me at least) as believing that all forms of racism are as bad as each other and should be punished on the same basis. To me it seems you believe that so-called "casual racism" (e.g. an inappropriate joke) is as bad as being KKK member. Neither are good, but most people would agree that one is a lot worse than the other.

If I have misunderstood your position, please correct me.

I don't think that acknowledging that the issue isn't entirely black and white (pun not intended) is in any way trivialising or condoning anything.

networkn

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#2687849 7-Apr-2021 12:38

MikeB4:

OK I will try this once more. There is no grading to racism. I NEVER said that all events should have the same sanctions. If the interviewer did his racism in a restaurant or bar then he could or should be shown the door. If he did it on a plane then the airline could or should evict him from the aircraft at the next opportunity. This guy engaged his racism on a national TV network with a potential audience of several hundred thousand. I would assume he had read his employment agreement, the companies code of conduct and be aware of the broadcasting standards. He should not remain in that position.

As for the educating. Racism especially over the last four and a half years has very much being in the lime light and certainly on national television including this guys employers network. To not be aware or claim to be aware of what constitutes racism and what is decent human behaviour after all this is simply something that I cannot believe.

If there is no grading to racism, how do you determine the appropriate punishment?

To be sacked, his employer would need to pass the acid test "what would a reasonable employer do". If the employer believes that sanctions, education and a public apology will result in rehabilitation and low likelihood of recurrence, then that is the path they could reasonably take.

Do you genuinely think he was *trying* to offend people?

Surely, intent should play a part in determining consequences?

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#2687850 7-Apr-2021 12:38

MikeB4:

OK I will try this once more. There is no grading to racism. I NEVER said that all events should have the same sanctions.

This is where I'm not following your line of thinking. If there is no "grading" to racism, then you believe all forms of racism are equally abhorrent - correct? Yet you don't believe they should all face the same sanctions?

If someone said something racist in a restaurant you believe they should be asked to leave. Fair enough. If someone filmed it in the restaurant and put it on Facebook and their boss saw it, should the boss fire them? What if it wasn't filmed, but a colleague was there and told the boss about it? Should they be fired then?

MikeB4

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#2687855 7-Apr-2021 13:01

networkn:

If there is no grading to racism, how do you determine the appropriate punishment?

To be sacked, his employer would need to pass the acid test "what would a reasonable employer do". If the employer believes that sanctions, education and a public apology will result in rehabilitation and low likelihood of recurrence, then that is the path they could reasonably take.

Do you genuinely think he was *trying* to offend people?

Surely, intent should play a part in determining consequences?

Your point number one, my answer is in the post you quoted.

Your second point, as written on the government business website ... "

Serious misconduct

Some misconduct is so serious that it may warrant immediate dismissal. This could include:

behaviour that endangers the health and safety of the employee or others
violence in the workplace
bullying and harassment
theft or fraud
serious breaches of employment agreement clauses.

MikeB4

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#2687859 7-Apr-2021 13:08

Paul1977:

This is where I'm not following your line of thinking. If there is no "grading" to racism, then you believe all forms of racism are equally abhorrent - correct? Yet you don't believe they should all face the same sanctions?

If someone said something racist in a restaurant you believe they should be asked to leave. Fair enough. If someone filmed it in the restaurant and put it on Facebook and their boss saw it, should the boss fire them? What if it wasn't filmed, but a colleague was there and told the boss about it? Should they be fired then?

If they identified or is widely known as being being part employers company they could be fired for bringing the company into disrepute.

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#2687869 7-Apr-2021 13:34

MikeB4:

If they identified or is widely known as being being part employers company they could be fired for bringing the company into disrepute.

I was really asking if you thought they should be in those instances, not whether or not they could be.

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