oh no! ... solid energy et al ... here we go again!

Forums › Off topic › oh no! ... solid energy et al ... here we go again!

Batman

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#114515 22-Feb-2013 10:01

From 2.8 billion dollars worth to negative ie debt in two years

Some iwis have lost hundreds of millions of dollars after settling treaty claims

The list goes on

Edit: sorry i have a galaxy s2 mobile and it's not possible to do any proper typing on that junk - i need either a note 3 or a microsoft surface with 3g :D ... some time in the future :)

http://www.stuff.co.nz/southland-times/business/8338301/English-can-t-rule-out-Solid-Energy-bailout

http://www.stuff.co.nz/taranaki-daily-news/news/6753868/Iwi-loses-almost-20-million

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10788984

other more personal stories (probably not really related to the gist of this thread)

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10662951

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allan_Hubbard_(businessman)

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#767451 22-Feb-2013 10:08

And NZ debt per GDP and debt per capitia. We worse off than the USA.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_external_debt

freitasm

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#767472 22-Feb-2013 10:36

OP, a bit more of background would be good. No one got a crystal ball and I for one have no idea what you are talking about.

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Zeon

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#767474 22-Feb-2013 10:37

This is why government shouldn't be running state owned enterprises. This will probably be another billion dollar bailout....

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gzt

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#767475 22-Feb-2013 10:41

Businesses fail in every country. I'm not sure that equates to NZ can't do business.

A couple of years back there was some kind of study of NZ management which concluded NZ management was performing below many international indicators but particularly in people management and development of human resource.

Imho debt indicators have to be seen in a wider context than an absolute ratio number. There are many countries with superior ratios where you would not want to live in most areas.

SandyJ

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#767508 22-Feb-2013 11:14

OP, a bit more of background would be good. No one got a crystal ball and I for one have no idea what you are talking about.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10866942

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10866943

Im suffering too. Have a house down there Im trying to sell.. with everyone who see's it falling in love with it, but not being able to get the money from the Bank because of the uncertainty. It sucks..

Cambo

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#767514 22-Feb-2013 11:20

gzt:
A couple of years back there was some kind of study of NZ management which concluded NZ management was performing below many international indicators but particularly in people management and development of human resource.

I would agree with this. I think most NZ companies see their staff like cattle, and don't earnestly try to mould the people and grow them to be excellent in their positions. Employees end up just doing the bare minimum, and the company loses out on employee engagement. I am certain that this leads to the company being less effective in whatever they do, and also affects financial success.

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DonGould

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#767571 22-Feb-2013 12:30

The suggestions made by the OP are just silly.

We ramped up coal production to meet a market demand and then the GFC hit because of stupid banking in the US.

The global demand for coal dropped off, which dropped the price well below our production price.

It's quite simply. You just stop pulling the coal out until the market picks up again. In the mean time that means workers have to find something else to do.

Having just been on the West Coast, if they would like to make contact I can give them a bit list of suggestions that could keep them busy for 5 years.

Seems that when you can sell hay, you invest in your local area to store up some more capital ready for when the hay market returns but also get focused on more than hay.

As for Iwi. That's just insulting. White people took all their land, beat their children for speaking their mother tongue in school and then wonder why education standards are so low that some of them have no economic understanding to hold the money that was given to them.

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#767575 22-Feb-2013 12:35

You were actually speaking a lot of sense until this part.

DonGould:
As for Iwi. That's just insulting. White people took all their land, beat their children for speaking their mother tongue in school and then wonder why education standards are so low that some of them have no economic understanding to hold the money that was given to them.

NZtechfreak

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#767590 22-Feb-2013 12:48

DonGould: The suggestions made by the OP are just silly.

We ramped up coal production to meet a market demand and then the GFC hit because of stupid banking in the US.

The global demand for coal dropped off, which dropped the price well below our production price.

It's quite simply. You just stop pulling the coal out until the market picks up again. In the mean time that means workers have to find something else to do.

Having just been on the West Coast, if they would like to make contact I can give them a bit list of suggestions that could keep them busy for 5 years.

Seems that when you can sell hay, you invest in your local area to store up some more capital ready for when the hay market returns but also get focused on more than hay.

As for Iwi. That's just insulting. White people took all their land, beat their children for speaking their mother tongue in school and then wonder why education standards are so low that some of them have no economic understanding to hold the money that was given to them.

+1 million.

Staggers me how these communities built around finite resources and fickle markets can't seem to see the sense in diversifying, instead just keep munting on about expanding mining to grow their local job markets and economies (which tends to suit the agendas of companies wanting new consents to exploit said resources, which National is only too happy to try to oblige).

I don't think this constitutes a great example of why government involvement in management of SOEs is a bad idea per se; it's not hard to find examples of the private sector failing miserably either.

Always a pleasure to see someone with a grasp of the effects of colonialism also, although I do think it is possibly drawing too long a bow to conclude that some Iwi business interests have failed because of educations standards (typically they aren't run by Maori without good educational backgrounds).

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surfisup1000

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#767595 22-Feb-2013 12:57

freitasm: OP, a bit more of background would be good. No one got a crystal ball and I for one have no idea what you are talking about.

He is talking about the string of failed businesses in NZ.

This includes solid energy which is 400 million in debt. It makes you wonder why they bought Pike River.

Also, many treaty settlements have been squandered in failed businesses and poor investments -- these are well publicized over the last few years.

I'd hate to see the government bail-out solid energy which is essentially an exporter.

The government has publicly stated that companies which cannot operate in a high dollar environment should not be operating. This surely includes solid energy!!!

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#767613 22-Feb-2013 13:13

surfisup1000: Also, many treaty settlements have been squandered in failed businesses and poor investments -- these are well publicized over the last few years.

My yes, aren't they just well publicized?

Strange you never see success stories for Iwi business and social enterprises (of which there are also many) publicized so well...

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kiwitrc

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#767620 22-Feb-2013 13:18

NZtechfreak:
surfisup1000: Also, many treaty settlements have been squandered in failed businesses and poor investments -- these are well publicized over the last few years.

My yes, aren't they just well publicized?

Strange you never see success stories for Iwi business and social enterprises (of which there are also many) publicized so well...

Dunno, Sealord seem to be held up as a shining example of how it can be done.

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#767622 22-Feb-2013 13:24

i don't mean to insult anyone .... perhaps i should'nt have verbalised my disappointment

i'm disappointed that the government saw solid energy as a base for creating a billion or so dollars (for whom to keep in their pocket is another matter), spent millions figuring out how to dissect the kidney out of the living organism, and the bombshell - hmm they are now in debt about half a billion quid.

i don't think that is small matter and i'm not insulting anyone

these are events that have happened

i guess yeah business failures are all part and parcel of life ... *sigh

Zeon

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#767642 22-Feb-2013 13:40

NZtechfreak:
surfisup1000: Also, many treaty settlements have been squandered in failed businesses and poor investments -- these are well publicized over the last few years.

My yes, aren't they just well publicized?

Strange you never see success stories for Iwi business and social enterprises (of which there are also many) publicized so well...

NZ media and people in here in general love criticizing failure. Not surprised as such TBH.

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#767646 22-Feb-2013 13:46

kiwitrc:
NZtechfreak:
surfisup1000: Also, many treaty settlements have been squandered in failed businesses and poor investments -- these are well publicized over the last few years.

My yes, aren't they just well publicized?

Strange you never see success stories for Iwi business and social enterprises (of which there are also many) publicized so well...

Dunno, Sealord seem to be held up as a shining example of how it can be done.

Tainui are definitely doing well with their property portfolio - The Base is a money printing machine for them...

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