Do you believe in race specific grants and scholarships?

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qwerty7

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#116028 16-Apr-2013 10:24

So I just opened an email from my university about some scholarships only to read certain race/cultural conditions were required in order to apply

I am not disagreeing with them just questioning the practice. I can see the reason behind them 'helping the under privileged', but is it an 'ambulance at the bottom of the cliff'?

How are we suppose to live as one equal if there are race specific scholarships and grants? Is that not segregation (Racial segregation is separation of humans into racial groups in daily life.)

Some how I do not see a scholarship for only people of European decent going down to well.

(Racism is usually defined as views, practices and actions reflecting the belief that humanity is divided into distinct biological groups called races and that members of a certain race share certain attributes which make that group as a whole less desirable, more desirable, inferior or superior.)

How come people growing up in New Zealand have equal access to welfare etc and then on top of that we have scholarships and grants specific to people from certain cultures?

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#800076 16-Apr-2013 10:42

It's to encourage people of a specific culture to seek a higher education, as they normally would not.

ajobbins

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#800082 16-Apr-2013 10:52

Is not a perfect solution, but the intention is to encourage groups who who have lower levels of participation in higher education.

In the past I've been somewhat torn on the issue because, financially I had no support outside of the student loan scheme and I was still able to attend university, but I do understand that the scholarships aren't really designed to make something unaffordable become affordable, but rather to provide a financial incentive for certain groups/people to seek higher education.

Overall, I think it's OK - but it's a treating a symptom of the problem, rather than the cause (of which there are many). A complex social issue.

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Mark

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#800083 16-Apr-2013 10:53

Going to be a touchy subject this one :-)

Me personally, I class it as discrimination. I'm all for scholarships, but I feel they should be earned and it shouldn't matter what colour or shape a person is, if they are good enough they should have an equal chance to win it.

nate

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#800088 16-Apr-2013 11:20

Mark: Me personally, I class it as discrimination. I'm all for scholarships, but I feel they should be earned and it shouldn't matter what colour or shape a person is, if they are good enough they should have an equal chance to win it.

Fully agree.

The justification is (for my uni anyway) that the funding from the Govt was based on the participation of Maori/Pacific Islanders. The more that were in a course, the better it looked.

I used to sit on an advisory board to the uni's council. I remember being part of a discussion about getting more Maori into engineering. My response was, "have you tried engineering, it's bloody hard?!"

Safe to say I had some perplexed looks from across the board table.

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#800094 16-Apr-2013 11:35

depends ..

if a particular group have no/zero representation in say university,

and giving out 2 scholarships out of 100,000 students may be ok

if a particular group has equal access to everything like housing health care jobs etc and you gave out 80% of you medical school places to this group that's no good

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#800095 16-Apr-2013 11:37

Mark: Going to be a touchy subject this one :-)

Me personally, I class it as discrimination. I'm all for scholarships, but I feel they should be earned and it shouldn't matter what colour or shape a person is, if they are good enough they should have an equal chance to win it.

Well, they're not handed out randomly to people in the target groups; they do have to be the best.

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gcorgnet

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#800097 16-Apr-2013 11:42

TinyTim:
Mark: Going to be a touchy subject this one :-)

Me personally, I class it as discrimination. I'm all for scholarships, but I feel they should be earned and it shouldn't matter what colour or shape a person is, if they are good enough they should have an equal chance to win it.

Well, they're not handed out randomly to people in the target groups; they do have to be the best.

Not always...
My wife has done some postgraduate studies in nursing and there are scholarships available from the Hospital and selection is based on several criteria but being Maori/Polynesian would qualify you straight away and then them remaining scholarships were spread across all the non Maori/Polynesian based on merit. I really do not think that this is fair...

LookingUp

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#800130 16-Apr-2013 12:20

IMHO, it depends on where the money is coming from.

If a particular segment of society is funding the scholarship then they should be able to set the selection criteria. On the other hand, if it's taxpayer funded then it should be open to all.

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Cambo

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#800140 16-Apr-2013 12:36

I've abandoned two long posts typed up in response to this thread.

In essence, yes - I believe in race-targeted scholarships.
Primarily because maori and pacific islanders encounter more difficulties getting to and succeeding in higher education.

There. I said it.

nate

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#800279 16-Apr-2013 15:35

Cambo: Primarily because maori and pacific islanders encounter more difficulties getting to and succeeding in higher education.

Such as...

Cambo

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#800287 16-Apr-2013 16:04

nate:

Such as...

It's difficult to explain.

NZ european's cover the whole socio-economic spectrum, from poor to wealthy.
Maori and Pacific Islanders lean more towards the low to below-median on the spectrum.

It is plain to see that Maori and P.I are less represented in higher education, but hard to find out why.

Maybe it's just the 'western/european labour/capitalism' system that is the issue. It does seem fair though - everyone who has the money can pay for the tuition and get the same education as anyone else.
But maybe it's somehow easier for us NZ Europeans to go through this kind of system, because we have hundreds of years of it in our blood.
The Maori and P.I peoples have only recently been introduced to this educational system, so maybe it's taking time to see changes.

You need to have a decent upbringing with some kind of values and drive and encouragement in order to be able to get yourself through higher education.

Also, some cultures have never had to have large industrial workforces in order to keep their nation running. Some have had more basic hunter/gatherer/trader lifestyles up until only a few hundred years ago.

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crackrdbycracku

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#800310 16-Apr-2013 16:27

It's a very complex issue.

One point is that every system will have people taking unfair advantage of it and this one will to, that probably doesn't invalidate the system.

No society is 'equal' those in a minority will be discriminated against, to deny this is silly.

So, what do you do about it?

Giving out higher education scholarships is probably at the 'better' end of the scale. It isn't perfect but it gives a chance to break the negative social cycles of poverty and dependence we see everyday. It isn't going to be an overnight success and there will be ups and downs but I would say we have to do something.

To me it's one of those; In a perfect world it wouldn't be necessary. Yeah, but the world isn't perfect and things like this do more good than harm.

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#800311 16-Apr-2013 16:28

Cambo:
nate:

Such as...

It's difficult to explain.

NZ european's cover the whole socio-economic spectrum, from poor to wealthy.
Maori and Pacific Islanders lean more towards the low to below-median on the spectrum.

It is plain to see that Maori and P.I are less represented in higher education, but hard to find out why.

Maybe it's just the 'western/european labour/capitalism' system that is the issue. It does seem fair though - everyone who has the money can pay for the tuition and get the same education as anyone else.
But maybe it's somehow easier for us NZ Europeans to go through this kind of system, because we have hundreds of years of it in our blood.
The Maori and P.I peoples have only recently been introduced to this educational system, so maybe it's taking time to see changes.

You need to have a decent upbringing with some kind of values and drive and encouragement in order to be able to get yourself through higher education.

Also, some cultures have never had to have large industrial workforces in order to keep their nation running. Some have had more basic hunter/gatherer/trader lifestyles up until only a few hundred years ago.

This post reeks of white guilt and racism.

We live in an equal society where every person has the same chances as another when it comes to education. This is especially true in tertiary education given that the only requirement for a student loan is that you pass...

Race-based scholarships are just that based on race and therefore racist. Having said that, the scholarships for religious students are just as bad.

Apparently if you have enough money the principles of discrimination don't necessarily apply.

NZtechfreak

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#800313 16-Apr-2013 16:29

qwerty7:
(Racism is usually defined as views, practices and actions reflecting the belief that humanity is divided into distinct biological groups called races and that members of a certain race share certain attributes which make that group as a whole less desirable, more desirable, inferior or superior.)

Curious why this definition for racism was included in the first post? Clearly irrelevant to the subject of these scholarships, since they are not making any judgements or statements "a certain race share certain attributes which make that group as a whole less desirable, more desirable, inferior or superior".

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#800315 16-Apr-2013 16:30

crackrdbycracku: It's a very complex issue.

One point is that every system will have people taking unfair advantage of it and this one will to, that probably doesn't invalidate the system.

No society is 'equal' those in a minority will be discriminated against, to deny this is silly.

So, what do you do about it?

Giving out higher education scholarships is probably at the 'better' end of the scale. It isn't perfect but it gives a chance to break the negative social cycles of poverty and dependence we see everyday. It isn't going to be an overnight success and there will be ups and downs but I would say we have to do something.

To me it's one of those; In a perfect world it wouldn't be necessary. Yeah, but the world isn't perfect and things like this do more good than harm.

Jack

My issue is that i struggle to see the 'inequality' in tertiary education. There literally is none. If you study you'll do well. If not, well then... A loan is effectively guaranteed to anyone eligible to study.

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