3rd degree tonight and GCSB

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plambrechtsen

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#154729 5-Nov-2014 21:24

Interesting article from 3rd degree tonight.

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#1169633 6-Nov-2014 00:19

So in a nutshell what Snowdon and Greenwald said at the moment of truth is backed up by the NSA.
I have my doubts that terrorists actually plan their terrorism on the net, and certainly not on unencrypted household internet connections and on-account cellphones.
It didn't help in Aussie recently with the finding of the plastic sword, and it didn't help in the Canadian Parliament. But it makes me burn kerosene all the way to Sydney and spend nights in hotels in order to to discuss ideas for an hour with a client who simply does not trust the privacy of the internet or the handling of encryption keys. 2 years ago we would have used the 200mb of internet data.
We're going backwards..

SaltyNZ

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#1169682 6-Nov-2014 07:37

Apparently there are about 80 kiwis under surveillance because they may be potential terrorists, according the the PM's speech yesterday. 80. And about half of them are only suspected of being loudmouths, as opposed to someone who is actually about to perform mayhem. According to Wikipedia, there were 934 Mongrel Mob members in prison in April 2013. So yeah... we definitely need to urgently review what civil rights we should suspend in order to deal with this imminent existential terrorist threat. We only need them to grow by more than an order of magnitude and they'll be roughly as annoying as a bikie gang.

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plambrechtsen

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#1169697 6-Nov-2014 08:02

SaltyNZ: Apparently there are about 80 kiwis under surveillance because they may be potential terrorists, according the the PM's speech yesterday. 80. And about half of them are only suspected of being loudmouths, as opposed to someone who is actually about to perform mayhem. According to Wikipedia, there were 934 Mongrel Mob members in prison in April 2013. So yeah... we definitely need to urgently review what civil rights we should suspend in order to deal with this imminent existential terrorist threat. We only need them to grow by more than an order of magnitude and they'll be roughly as annoying as a bikie gang.

But you are forgetting about black powet and satan slaves who collectively must make up more than 2000. Their manufacturer and sale of P aka Meth which has untold toll on tens of thousands of kiwis on an annual basis including how many deaths?

Or the number of people with type 2 diabetes and the annual death toll poor nutrition with high sugar contents.

And we certainly couldn't talk about smoking??

Perspective is important.

MikeB4

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#1169704 6-Nov-2014 08:16

It only needs one to bring down a plane.

SaltyNZ

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#1169707 6-Nov-2014 08:23

plambrechtsen:
Perspective is important.

Perspective is entirely my point. Each one of those things is way more likely to cause you harm than 'terrorists'. But we - rightly - don't worry about them too much, because they don't happen very often to any given person, and a calm, measured response is much more useful than the panic our government would have us lather ourselves into.

Edit - yes, I realise you were being facetious. Or at least, I hope so. :-)

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#1169713 6-Nov-2014 08:33

KiwiNZ: It only needs one to bring down a plane.

Does it? Maybe it did in 2001. But who's going to get away with bringing down a plane in 2014? The underpants bomber didn't. The second he looked twitchy he was overpowered by all the other passengers and was forced to spend the rest of the flight tied up with a burnt crotch. Because now everybody knows the game has changed - it used to be that if you were hijacked, the worst that was going to happen was that you'd sit on the tarmac for two days in some flyover country and then go home again after your holiday was ruined. After 9/11 everybody knows that a hijacker might try to kill you all immediately. So even if he somehow managed to smuggle an AK-47 onto the plane, the moment he looks like he's about to pull the trigger, 200 people are going to pile on and turn him into a stain on the carpet.

Even allowing for terrorism, more people die on the roads in New Zealand every year than are typically killed in air disasters. More people have died in Space Shuttle accidents (14) than have died from terrorism (1, on the Rainbow Warrior) in New Zealand. I don't think we can make the comparison any starker than that.

It's just not something we have to panic about.

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MikeB4

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#1169732 6-Nov-2014 08:39

That was to illustrate that in NZ right now one could bring down a plane. I agree we don't need to panic but we need to be able to detect and prevent. And given our announced involvement with the coalition against ISIL even more so.
Our current airport security is lax especially on regional routes. But generally our security is poor.

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Wade

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#1169769 6-Nov-2014 09:24

Are all Gang members terrorists and are all terrorists gang members?

SaltyNZ

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#1169776 6-Nov-2014 09:37

Wade: Are all Gang members terrorists and are all terrorists gang members?

It's only a matter of time.

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ubergeeknz

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#1169778 6-Nov-2014 09:40

Once the law gives special dispensation for dealing with "Terrorists" then anyone the government don't like will be a "Terrorist". That's how this works.

Geektastic

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#1169779 6-Nov-2014 09:41

Just wait until the first car bomb goes off in Queen St or whatever.

You'll all be singing a different tune then, I can assure you.

freitasm

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#1169800 6-Nov-2014 09:47

ubergeeknz: Once the law gives special dispensation for dealing with "Terrorists" then anyone the government don't like will be a "Terrorist". That's how this works.

Yep. Any time there's a shooting in the USA with more than two deaths, people start crying "terrorism attack!"... That changes the whole dynamics - police response, prosecution, etc.

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#1169803 6-Nov-2014 09:47

ubergeeknz: Once the law gives special dispensation for dealing with "Terrorists" then anyone the government don't like will be a "Terrorist". That's how this works.

Not necessarily, there is a precedent, during WW11 the Government was given special powers and rights were curtailed by Michael Savage. These powers were later repealed.

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#1169817 6-Nov-2014 09:55

Once you give a government the right to do something, it's really hard to take that away from them.

In other words, once you give up rights, it's hard to get them back.

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SaltyNZ

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#1169818 6-Nov-2014 09:56

Geektastic: Just wait until the first car bomb goes off in Queen St or whatever.

You'll all be singing a different tune then, I can assure you.

I'd be lying if I said that the subconscious part of my brain that's really bad at estimating risk wouldn't be somewhat worried by that, but fortunately I also have another part of my brain that can count, with which to override it.

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