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BDFL - Memuneh
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Topic # 16399 8-Oct-2007 08:17
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She joins Sir David Frost to discuss this, revealing that in her opinion it is "a question of not if but when [New Zealand will become a republic]. But that time is not now".









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Reply # 90213 9-Oct-2007 08:44
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Mauricio,

First of all, thanks for putting this up; most valuable.  I forced myself to watch her entire spew so that I couldn't be accused of only picking and choosing pieces out.

Wake up people:

  • Change to election funding laws = Labour buys yet another election.
  • Change the flag + change to republic + free trade deal with China = communist New Zealand
Labour is a socialist regime.  Of course she wants closer ties to China.  We aren't going to influence their 1.2 billion.  They are going to influence our 4 million.

Not what I want for my children.




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  Reply # 90311 9-Oct-2007 19:35
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freitasm: New Zealand will become a republic


Roll on that day. Queen as the head of state is a quaint idea, but a useful one it is not. As Helen said though, Australia will probably take that jump first, once that happens NZ will likely follow not long after.

JamesHip: Labour is a socialist regime.


Well you can call me Che if you like, but I think that is rather fortunate, as New Zealand is a basically socialist society, if we were not, then Labour and it's supporting centre left parties wouldn't be in power.

As for China, it is changing from it's hard line communist system, they are slowly becoming more open, but these things take time, small steps, you can't expect wholesale reversal of an entrenched system over night - compare to North Korea which definately not becoming more open in any respect.

It is wise to be laying ground work for such a massive and still somewhat developing trading partner as China to have close ties to New Zealand, particularly as they are "in our neighbourhood" so to speak.




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  Reply # 90344 9-Oct-2007 21:10
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sleemanj: It is wise to be laying ground work for such a massive and still somewhat developing trading partner as China to have close ties to New Zealand, particularly as they are "in our neighbourhood" so to speak.


Call me a right wing conservative if you like (I'm OK with that label) but we really should be focusing on repairing our ties with our traditional allies/partners; the US, UK/EU and Aussie. You know, countries that share our values.

New Zealand has become a socialist and politically correct society and when I see the news I'm often ashamed to live here. Bring on a National government that is tough on crime (anti smacking laws don't count as tough on crime).

Where's Jama? He has all the good ideas!!

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  Reply # 90360 9-Oct-2007 22:08
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You know, countries that share our values.


That's a very broad statement, depending on the particular definition of "value" it could be questionable. I do not think that the NZ population's collective political views are shared with the US, UK, greater Europe or even Australia for the greater part.

Canada is probably a closer match than most other countries.

But that said, why should we only deal with countries that share our values? That could be taken to mean that:

a) one thinks by not dealing with them that they will change, and to refute that I only need point out the Cuba-US relationship and how the embargo has failed miserably in bringing about change in Cuba - it's clearly done more harm than good and exists today only as a trade protectionist measure; or
b) that you think that we should just ignore them, "leave them to thier own devices", which could be seen as cold-hearted ("don't care"), dangerous ("head in the sand"), and even that one does not have real resolve in thier own value system ("well, maybe they are right, who am I to argue"); or
c) that you REALLY don't have confidence in your own values and fear that they would not stand up to scrutiny ("they are going to change us to be like them")

I have confidence in my value set, I do not have confidence in the present values exhibited by the communist leadership in China, and I believe that not trading with China is a worse situation than trading with them would be, simply because with trade, comes exchange of ideas, and my opinion, our common NZ value set being stronger it will prevail in the fullness of time against thier, weaker, set of values.

NZ has always hit above it's weight in the political arena, pursuing trade with china is an example of that, but you have to read between the lines because politics is never black and white.

Bring on a National government


If you think that the National government would forgo the enormous potentional for making money that there is in China simply on the sake of a principle, you would be assuredly sorely mistaken.

I'm often ashamed to live here


Australia is generally happy to accept New Zealanders who share thier center-right views more than our center-left ones. NZ similarly in the opposite.




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  Reply # 90368 9-Oct-2007 22:32
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sleemanj: NZ has always hit above it's weight in the political arena, pursuing trade with china is an example of that, but you have to read between the lines because politics is never black and white.


You are quite correct there, our beloved PM would love to add red to that mix. I wonder if her preferred choice for a new flag includes a hammer and sickle

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  Reply # 90601 11-Oct-2007 09:52
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I don't think you could classify China as a Marxist regime anymore. It's more fascist/corporatist, hence western companies are swarming their like flies on fan-bin.

Going to Australia isn't going to help as they are negotiating a FTA with China too (http://www.dfat.gov.au/geo/china/fta/)

In any case ... no-one really gives a shyte about Communism/Marxism countries, since the Berlin wall fell (but, be vigilant of those
who wave the flag of Jihad!)

You guys should snap out of the 80's and think about the state of the world now.

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  Reply # 90630 11-Oct-2007 12:30
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Labour is social democrat (as is Nelson Mandela ironically), not socialist. There's also a very sizeable gap between socialism and communism - I'm certainly enjoying all of my personal freedoms, aren't you? And remember, if it wasn't for people of this political doctrine, you wouldn't be enjoying the labour laws that protect your working rights amongst others. Don't get me wrong, I do disagree with a number of Labour's ideas but I disagree with more of the right-wing parties' ideas.

Big tick to NZ becoming a republic! The Commonwealth with Queen as head of state is such an antiquated notion.

@Brad - yes, we share values with Aus and UK/EU but I think our values far differ from those in the US (thankfully I might say!). Do we want to head down the path of corporate corruption and inteference in politics with a thin grey line between church and state?




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Reply # 90634 11-Oct-2007 12:45
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lugh: @Brad - yes, we share values with Aus and UK/EU but I think our values far differ from those in the US (thankfully I might say!). Do we want to head down the path of corporate corruption and inteference in politics with a thin grey line between church and state?


Some of us on the religous right might say thats not such a bad thing, our society seems to be lacking something when it comes to morality.

You do realise that HC was once a card carrying communist?

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  Reply # 90636 11-Oct-2007 12:56
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bradstewart: Some of us on the religous right might say thats not such a bad thing, our society seems to be lacking something when it comes to morality.

Neo-conservatism? Evangelistic fundamentalism? (perhaps religion in politics should be saved for a different argument)
You do realise that HC was once a card carrying communist?

Everyone goes through phases... I'm sure you have skeletons in your closet too :-)




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  Reply # 90641 11-Oct-2007 13:24

bradstewart: our society seems to be lacking something when it comes to morality.

as evidenced by John Key's stripper fan club
bradstewart: You do realise that HC was once a card carrying communist?

but did you realise she protested against the Vietnam war when she was at University and has had a life-long interest in politics? unlike her counterpart opponent who is a banker with no political education or experience. If Key was prime minister he would have sent troops to Iraq, enough said I think.




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Reply # 90642 11-Oct-2007 13:42
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bradstewart: Some of us on the religous right might say thats not such a bad thing, our society seems to be lacking something when it comes to morality.


Amen!




James Hippolite
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