"Cash only" jobs.

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Linuxluver

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#191781 16-Feb-2016 11:41

I just had another tradesman offer me a "cash only" job.

I didn't take it. I want the paper work.

I want the proof the work was done.

I want him / her to pay the tax that keeps our hospitals and schools operating as we want them too.

I also asked him how he could be certain no one he did a job for worked for the IRD. He may as well hang an "Audit me!" sign on his van.

His brow crinkled a bit.

NZ has a reputation for low levels of corruption, but from what I see in the business sector, corruption is the norm. It's most of them. Every day. All day. Especially the small guys.

I suspect many only bitch about "compliance costs" because that's how they might get caught cheating.

Maybe if we all call the IRD and report all these cowboys cheating on their income tax and GST it might reduce the amount of tax evasion.....or are well all corrupt, too?

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#1493156 16-Feb-2016 11:44

I wouldn't call that corruption, I'd call it tax avoidance or evasion. Quite different. Corruption is someone in power asking for a bribe, he just gave you an option.

MikeB4

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#1493160 16-Feb-2016 11:48

Tax evasion is high in some trades and annoys the heck out of me. I have some acquaintances in the building trade that do week end "cashies" and it is so wrong but they just see it as almost a sport yet they will

deride a person who claims money falsely from MSD, I see no difference in Tax evasion, welfare fraud, theft etc etc

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

Linuxluver

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#1493161 16-Feb-2016 11:49

timmmay:

I wouldn't call that corruption, I'd call it tax avoidance or evasion. Quite different. Corruption is someone in power asking for a bribe, he just gave you an option.

It's a conspiracy to break the law.

That's corruption. But it is interesting people do try to draw some sort of distinction between the two. But it really boils down to "My corruption is OK, but theirs isn't". It's all illegal....and we all end up paying for it in higher taxes or a lower level of services.

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dejadeadnz

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#1493170 16-Feb-2016 12:07

As a risk and compliance guy, I find most of the complaints about us being drowned in red tape to be exaggerated tripe. Even the endless complaints about our tax rates are largely BS (do these people even bother to look at the tax rates of comparable countries)? What we really suffer from are market failures that result in insane prices for essentials like housing and food, which hugely reduces people's buying power. It also doesn't help that your average middle class person has aspirations that are entirely out of touch with reality.

I live in Albany, Auckland and we are both professionals earning low 6-figure incomes. We are not rich but certainly likely to be far better off than most of our neighbours. Yet there isn't a long weekend where all of them don't dash off somewhere; there isn't a garage in our cross-lease that isn't just crammed full of items. Every house here (apart from us) has changed cars in the last 2 years.

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#1493171 16-Feb-2016 12:08

Linuxluver:

timmmay:

I wouldn't call that corruption, I'd call it tax avoidance or evasion. Quite different. Corruption is someone in power asking for a bribe, he just gave you an option.

It's a conspiracy to break the law.

That's corruption. But it is interesting people do try to draw some sort of distinction between the two. But it really boils down to "My corruption is OK, but theirs isn't". It's all illegal....and we all end up paying for it in higher taxes or a lower level of services.

timmay is correct. Corruption has a very specific definition. "Lawlessness", "outlawry" and "illegality" are all better terms for your statement, e.g. "My lawlessness is OK, but theirs isn't."

Lias

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#1493176 16-Feb-2016 12:17

The only tax evasion I care about is corporate. Tradies doing cashies is a drop in the pond, it's a tiny amount compared to the white collar and corporate crime committed every day, but some *cough* people *cough* prefer to scream about it rather than focusing on the true criminals, who usually wear suits.

Personally I'd rather see IRD focus on taxing the snot out of the multinationals that use every trick in the book to avoid paying tax (Mcdonalds, Microsoft, Google, Apple, etc), more done to stop the ultra rich using trusts, offshore accounts, etc to dodge tax. Another good example is Southern Cross Cable, majority owned by Spark but registered in the Bahamas with the sole purpose of tax dodging.

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keewee01

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#1493178 16-Feb-2016 12:20

This annoys me also.

I know someone who earns enough from cash jobs they take an extended overseas holiday each year to burn up the cash. Grrrr.

MikeB4

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#1493183 16-Feb-2016 12:28

Lias:
The only tax evasion I care about is corporate. Tradies doing cashies is a drop in the pond, it's a tiny amount compared to the white collar and corporate crime committed every day, but some *cough* people *cough* prefer to scream about it rather than focusing on the true criminals, who usually wear suits.

Personally I'd rather see IRD focus on taxing the snot out of the multinationals that use every trick in the book to avoid paying tax (Mcdonalds, Microsoft, Google, Apple, etc), more done to stop the ultra rich using trusts, offshore accounts, etc to dodge tax. Another good example is Southern Cross Cable, majority owned by Spark but registered in the Bahamas with the sole purpose of tax dodging.

So you would be happy if the builder or plumber down the road works full time and draws a welfare benefit?

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

surfisup1000

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#1493184 16-Feb-2016 12:28

Linuxluver:

Maybe if we all call the IRD and report all these cowboys cheating on their income tax and GST it might reduce the amount of tax evasion.....or are well all corrupt, too?

I'm more concerned about the big corporates who use complex tax shelters to pay little or no tax. Maybe google pays even less tax than that tradie which is obscene.

Tradies shouldn't be doing it but it is very difficult to prevent it.

ajobbins

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#1493187 16-Feb-2016 12:34

Cash economy here is Australia is huge, particularly among the trades. I've heard anecdotal reports from colleagues and friends that many tradies demand cash or add huge premiums (basically the GST and income tax, plus admin) if you want to do it the right way. A former colleague who built a very large and expensive house said about 75% of his tradies were paid in cash at their request. He complied, somewhat begrudgingly, but the difference in the build cost by doing it the right way would have been in the order of 6 figures.

Another former colleague of mine who's husband is a carpenter said he was pulling in between $180-200k a year, with about 60% of that in cash.

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dejadeadnz

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#1493191 16-Feb-2016 12:39

This thread shows that far too many people view the benefits that a civilised society provide way too narrowly and that they under-estimate the benefits so called "little people" get from society.

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#1493192 16-Feb-2016 12:40

Linuxluver:

timmmay:

I wouldn't call that corruption, I'd call it tax avoidance or evasion. Quite different. Corruption is someone in power asking for a bribe, he just gave you an option.

It's a conspiracy to break the law.

That's corruption. But it is interesting people do try to draw some sort of distinction between the two. But it really boils down to "My corruption is OK, but theirs isn't". It's all illegal....and we all end up paying for it in higher taxes or a lower level of services.

Well, when you say "we all" you presumably mean "the minority of taxpayers in NZ who are net payers rather than net recipients" because that number is actually fairly small as a percentage.

tdgeek

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#1493194 16-Feb-2016 12:42

Linuxluver:

timmmay:

I wouldn't call that corruption, I'd call it tax avoidance or evasion. Quite different. Corruption is someone in power asking for a bribe, he just gave you an option.

It's a conspiracy to break the law.

That's corruption. But it is interesting people do try to draw some sort of distinction between the two. But it really boils down to "My corruption is OK, but theirs isn't". It's all illegal....and we all end up paying for it in higher taxes or a lower level of services.

Your right, its is corruption. Get a ticket in Thailand and you can pay a few baht in cash top the officer. Citizen saves money, provider makes money. Cashie is no different.

Geektastic

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#1493195 16-Feb-2016 12:42

keewee01:

This annoys me also.

I know someone who earns enough from cash jobs they take an extended overseas holiday each year to burn up the cash. Grrrr.

I know a chiropractor who earned enough to put $40,000 in cash down as a deposit on a house!! And 12 months later bought a $25,000 motorbike by trading one he had imported when he moved here and topping up with cash...he also keeps thousands in gold and silver.

SheriffNZ

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#1493196 16-Feb-2016 12:44

Lias:

The only tax evasion I care about is corporate. Tradies doing cashies is a drop in the pond, it's a tiny amount compared to the white collar and corporate crime committed every day, but some *cough* people *cough* prefer to scream about it rather than focusing on the true criminals, who usually wear suits.

Personally I'd rather see IRD focus on taxing the snot out of the multinationals that use every trick in the book to avoid paying tax (Mcdonalds, Microsoft, Google, Apple, etc), more done to stop the ultra rich using trusts, offshore accounts, etc to dodge tax. Another good example is Southern Cross Cable, majority owned by Spark but registered in the Bahamas with the sole purpose of tax dodging.

Don't get me started. I work in a field which deals with the consequences of people not paying their tax. Principally they are the small tradies you are referring to. Every day I see these tradies with 6/7 figure debts to IRD from being 1, incompetent business men/woman, 2 incompetent tradesman/woman or 3, incompetent at both. Have a look at some liquidation reports someday to see how much tax debt some of these tradies accumulate. It's staggering. The cumulative totals of these unpaid debts must be significant to the amount of tax the rest of us pays.

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