Geekzone: technology news, blogs, forums
Guest
Welcome Guest.
You haven't logged in yet. If you don't have an account you can register now.




Lock him up!
10682 posts

Uber Geek

Lifetime subscriber

# 196531 3-Jun-2016 10:55
One person supports this post
Send private message

A few days ago I asked a question in response to another thread but was asked by the OP to turn it into a new thread so here goes.

 

My question was what is it that makes ordinary people so suspicious of science yet so quick to embrace magic. I happen to have some friends who unfortunately fall into this category. They are all kind, intelligent people, which is why they are friends, but they seem convinced that scientific research, including the research that has led to most of the home comforts they take for granted, is somehow tainted and part of a vast conspiracy. Yet they have no problem accepting homoeopathy, astrology, Tarot, and in one case, at least, even the existence of angels! Or to be correct, this friend, regrettably a Kiwi, seems to believe in someone who claims to talk to angels, who tell him things like global warming is just a myth so don't worry about it. Apparently he is very popular in the States and has made a ton of money writing books.

 

I just don't get it. These are not stupid people. I like and respect them and they are perfectly rational and capable about other things. So what causes such people to be so dismissive of the intellectual rigour and painstaking research process of scientific method, yet so quick to embrace the most bizarre superstitions on the word of some charlatan they know only from media like the Internet? What makes the flaky stuff so much easier to believe in than real information garnered from actual facts? I would be very interested to hear what others think about the underlying reasons for this, but disparaging and belittling comments about the thought processes of such people are not really helpful. The fact is, there are an awful lot of people who do think like this, especially in places like America, and I think it is important to understand where it comes from.

 

 





I don't think there is ever a bad time to talk about how absurd war is, how old men make decisions and young people die. - George Clooney
 


View this topic in a long page with up to 500 replies per page Create new topic
 1 | 2 | 3

BTR

1515 posts

Uber Geek


  # 1564904 3-Jun-2016 11:02
Send private message

Some people can't cope with common solutions and have to turn to alternatives to keep their sanity. Whether its, health, education or religion some people don;t fit into the norm.

 

Or it is simply they had a bad experience with "the norm" or maybe mental issues.

 

 

 

I know some similar people and while i don't agree with what they often say or do I accept they have alternative views and let them carry on with their way of life. 


14228 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted
Subscriber

  # 1564908 3-Jun-2016 11:06
Send private message

The good thing about freedom of choice is, freedom of choice. If their freedom of choice does not affect your freedom of choice where is the harm?  





Mike
Retired IT Manager. 
The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

There is no planet B

 

 


 
 
 
 


1256 posts

Uber Geek


  # 1564918 3-Jun-2016 11:19
One person supports this post
Send private message

My first reaction is that it originates with religion, which teaches that faith (believing in something for which you have no evidence) is more righteous than seeking proof - in fact, someone looking for the facts is probably turning their back on God and will be condemned to spending eternity in the fiery pits of hell.

 

But then I think about astrology and the tarot, which organised religion considers to be witchcraft, so anyone who has a reading (or reads their star signs in the paper) will be condemned to spending eternity in the fiery pits of hell.

 

If you believe in both angels and astrology I'm guessing you were probably home-schooled, and that science wasn't on the curriculum. 


774 posts

Ultimate Geek
Inactive user


  # 1564919 3-Jun-2016 11:21
Send private message

It can reasonably be summed up as a "difference in approach" to thinking.

 

Science: "Show me, and I will trust you."

 

Religion:  "Trust me, and I will show you."

 

Different approaches resonate differently with different people.


818 posts

Ultimate Geek


  # 1564926 3-Jun-2016 11:34
Send private message

So much depends on which "truth" you want to believe.

 

I'm not a climate change believer nor non believer, I have heard differing opinions / facts and am not scientifically knowledgeable enough to argue one or the other is right. Is the earth warming, perhaps (although where did they get the weather details for 500 years ago from? readings in soil / ice etc that have been agreed upon by scientists that they mean x temperature). Is the impact of "green house gasses" the root cause of global warming or just a convenient symptom that Governments / greenies jump up and down about to raise money / taxes, Who knows

 

I strongly believe that there is alien life, theres just no way no how in the size of the known universe / galaxy that we are the only sentient beings. Are we likely to get visited / invaded as Michael Bay / Ridley Scott etc make out in their movies, highly unlikely.

 

As for other beliefs, if it makes people feel good about themselves, fantastic, good for them, just don't come knocking on my door in the middle of dinner trying to save my soul. If I want bread, I'll go to the supermarket, if I want petrol, I'll go to the gas station and if I wanted to hear someone talk about "god" I'd go to church


1457 posts

Uber Geek


  # 1564933 3-Jun-2016 11:42
2 people support this post
Send private message

As someone somewhere else said, religion is like a penis.

 

Its nice that you have one, but don't assume everyone else has one or wants one, don't wave it around in public, and don't force it on my children.


3874 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted
Lifetime subscriber

  # 1564943 3-Jun-2016 11:48
5 people support this post
Send private message

Because they have had belief brainwashed into them from an early age, and because of that brainwashing think it's perfectly reasonably to believe in the tooth fairy, magical zombies in the sky, colours curing cancer, chemtrails, and all those other fun things instead of science and logic.

 

Religion, like porn, needs to be R18 and kids should not be exposed to it, instead all children should be taught critical thinking and logic, to question and challenge, and to never blindly accept things on faith.





Information wants to be free. The Net interprets censorship as damage and routes around it.


 
 
 
 


2000 posts

Uber Geek

Lifetime subscriber

  # 1564953 3-Jun-2016 12:08
Send private message

As far as I can see, we all live by faith. We all learn to trust something before we understand what we are trusting.

 

At the personal level, I've trusted my parents to love me.

 

At the material level, I have accepted that I will not fall off the earth that I walk on. I don't think about it much - it's just one foundation for my life on earth. After a good education, I have some understanding of why I can rely on gravity. But my understanding is a long way from understanding what gravity actually is, why it operates the way it does and whether it will keep working the rest of my life. I clearly have faith that gravity will keep me on earth. I'm pretty sure that we have all had or have this faith.

 

(P.S. FYI, we could get into philosophy and arguments about epistemology, reality, etc. but I won't be bothered joining in.)


2514 posts

Uber Geek
Inactive user


  # 1564956 3-Jun-2016 12:11
Send private message

Lias:

 

Because they have had belief brainwashed into them from an early age, and because of that brainwashing think it's perfectly reasonably to believe in the tooth fairy, magical zombies in the sky, colours curing cancer, chemtrails, and all those other fun things instead of science and logic.

 

Religion, like porn, needs to be R18 and kids should not be exposed to it, instead all children should be taught critical thinking and logic, to question and challenge, and to never blindly accept things on faith.

 

 

And this would be a perfect world.


2000 posts

Uber Geek

Lifetime subscriber

  # 1564982 3-Jun-2016 12:27
3 people support this post
Send private message

Rikkitic:

 

I just don't get it. These are not stupid people. I like and respect them and they are perfectly rational and capable about other things. So what causes such people to be so dismissive of the intellectual rigour and painstaking research process of scientific method, ...

 

 

One reason is that science is not the dispassionate enquiry we were taught. It is so easy to find "intellectual rigour" giving way to vested interest and "scientific method" subverted for non-scientific ends. Rational pursuit of fame and economic gain are reasons why science has such a poor reputation. I feel like "scientists" are one of the great disappointments exposed in my lifetime:

 

http://www.neatorama.com/2006/09/19/10scientific-frauds-that-rocked-the-world/

 

I'm not sure that the Tasaday discovery during my childhood is really science but it feels like another disappointment.


13321 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted
Lifetime subscriber

  # 1564988 3-Jun-2016 12:33
2 people support this post
Send private message

Some people are very stupid. After all, half of the population is of below average intelligence for a start.

 

I don't much care if they want to believe in nonsense.

 

What irks me is that I am supposed by law to respect their idiocy.

 

To use the gravity analogy above, you do not necessarily need to understand it - you can prove it exists by dropping a plate or trying to jump off the world. You cannot prove that any one of the certainly thousands and probably hundreds of thousands of gods and goddesses humans have invented ever actually existed.

 

Who was right? What if, say, the Romans were correct and christians are wrong? Or maybe the Egyptians? Or perhaps Mythras? Or Baal? Or was it Odin?

 

I'd disqualify anyone religious from holding public office. 






5441 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted
Subscriber

  # 1564991 3-Jun-2016 12:36
Send private message

Rikkitic:

 

A few days ago I asked a question in response to another thread but was asked by the OP to turn it into a new thread so here goes.

 

My question was what is it that makes ordinary people so suspicious of science yet so quick to embrace magic. I happen to have some friends who unfortunately fall into this category. They are all kind, intelligent people, which is why they are friends, but they seem convinced that scientific research, including the research that has led to most of the home comforts they take for granted, is somehow tainted and part of a vast conspiracy. Yet they have no problem accepting homoeopathy, astrology, Tarot, and in one case, at least, even the existence of angels! Or to be correct, this friend, regrettably a Kiwi, seems to believe in someone who claims to talk to angels, who tell him things like global warming is just a myth so don't worry about it. Apparently he is very popular in the States and has made a ton of money writing books.

 

I just don't get it. These are not stupid people. I like and respect them and they are perfectly rational and capable about other things. So what causes such people to be so dismissive of the intellectual rigour and painstaking research process of scientific method, yet so quick to embrace the most bizarre superstitions on the word of some charlatan they know only from media like the Internet? What makes the flaky stuff so much easier to believe in than real information garnered from actual facts? I would be very interested to hear what others think about the underlying reasons for this, but disparaging and belittling comments about the thought processes of such people are not really helpful. The fact is, there are an awful lot of people who do think like this, especially in places like America, and I think it is important to understand where it comes from.

 

 

 

Magic is emotionally satisfying. You just have to know what you WANT to be true. 

 

Science means you have to think and understand things as they really are. 

 

People don't like to think. They will fight wars rather than think. (Invading Iraq in 2003, for example). 

 

Science is much harder and most people are (intellectually) lazy. They will punch you in the face if you try to make them face that simple fact. 

 

Magic wins. There could be no religion without it. The thousands burned at the stake or otherwise murdered over the centuries know very well magical thinking can be lethal. 





____________________________________________________
If you order a Tesla, use my referral code to get free stuff. 

 

My Tesla referral code: https://ts.la/steve52356


1770 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

  # 1565014 3-Jun-2016 12:57
5 people support this post
Send private message

Follow the money ....

 

Ask the Universe .... again, follow the money.

 

Religion ... follow the money ...

 

Astrology and Tarot readings  ... follow the money ..

 

Health alternatives and homoeopathy - follow the money ...

 

Self-help books ... Follow the money

 

There's always a sucker easily parted from their money.

 

 





My thoughts are no longer my own and is probably representative of our media-controlled government


1170 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted
BigPipe

  # 1565016 3-Jun-2016 13:00
One person supports this post
Send private message

Hammerer:

 

Rikkitic:

 

I just don't get it. These are not stupid people. I like and respect them and they are perfectly rational and capable about other things. So what causes such people to be so dismissive of the intellectual rigour and painstaking research process of scientific method, ...

 

 

One reason is that science is not the dispassionate enquiry we were taught. It is so easy to find "intellectual rigour" giving way to vested interest and "scientific method" subverted for non-scientific ends. Rational pursuit of fame and economic gain are reasons why science has such a poor reputation. I feel like "scientists" are one of the great disappointments exposed in my lifetime:

 

http://www.neatorama.com/2006/09/19/10scientific-frauds-that-rocked-the-world/

 

I'm not sure that the Tasaday discovery during my childhood is really science but it feels like another disappointment.

 

 

 

 

The great thing about science is that it is self correcting.

 

The very nature of the scientific method means when you make a claim/theory/hypothesis (especially something controversial or new) then it then becomes something that other scientists will work hard to replicate, prove or disprove.

 

from the very first thing on that list:

 

"when Stanley Pons and Martin Fleischmann announced to a hungry scientific world that they'd discovered cold fusion in 1989 (a process that supposedly used much less energy), the duo were welcomed with splashy headlines.

 

Other scientists were dubious, and when Pons and Fleischmann withdrew their paper from Naturemagazine and refused to answer questions, charges of fraud were made. Pons and Fleischmann never gave enough details of the experiment to allow others to replicate it, and more than 10 years later no one has been able to replicate their results."

 

 

 

now, compare that with the various 'magical' claims.   All too often with these things people accept them at face value without any sort of rigour and are encouraged NOT to test them at all. 

 

Magical Thinking:    You say you saw angels in your garden?  That's incredible. You must be so blessed.

 

Scientific Thinking:  You say you saw angels in your garden?  That's interesting.  How do you know they were angels? How have you excluded the other possibilities for such an experience, like a trick of the light, people playing a prank? a hallucination? lucid dream etc?





bigpipe.co.nz
https://www.facebook.com/BigPipeNZ
https://twitter.com/BigPipeNZ


604 posts

Ultimate Geek


  # 1565022 3-Jun-2016 13:08
Send private message

Playing this in schools might help.



 1 | 2 | 3
View this topic in a long page with up to 500 replies per page Create new topic



Twitter and LinkedIn »



Follow us to receive Twitter updates when new discussions are posted in our forums:



Follow us to receive Twitter updates when news items and blogs are posted in our frontpage:



Follow us to receive Twitter updates when tech item prices are listed in our price comparison site:





News »

Microsoft New Zealand Partner Awards results
Posted 18-Oct-2019 10:18


Logitech introduces new Made for Google keyboard and mouse devices
Posted 16-Oct-2019 13:36


MATTR launches to accelerate decentralised identity
Posted 16-Oct-2019 10:28


Vodafone X-Squad powers up for customers
Posted 16-Oct-2019 08:15


D Link ANZ launches EXO Smart Mesh Wi Fi Routers with McAfee protection
Posted 15-Oct-2019 11:31


Major Japanese retailer partners with smart New Zealand technology IMAGR
Posted 14-Oct-2019 10:29


Ola pioneers one-time passcode feature to fight rideshare fraud
Posted 14-Oct-2019 10:24


Spark Sport new home of NZC matches from 2020
Posted 10-Oct-2019 09:59


Meet Nola, Noel Leeming's new digital employee
Posted 4-Oct-2019 08:07


Registrations for Sprout Accelerator open for 2020 season
Posted 4-Oct-2019 08:02


Teletrac Navman welcomes AI tech leader Jens Meggers as new President
Posted 4-Oct-2019 07:41


Vodafone makes voice of 4G (VoLTE) official
Posted 4-Oct-2019 07:36


2degrees Reaches Milestone of 100,000 Broadband Customers
Posted 1-Oct-2019 09:17


Nokia 1 Plus available in New Zealand from 2nd October
Posted 30-Sep-2019 17:46


Ola integrates Apple Pay as payment method in New Zealand
Posted 25-Sep-2019 09:51



Geekzone Live »

Try automatic live updates from Geekzone directly in your browser, without refreshing the page, with Geekzone Live now.


Support Geekzone »

Our community of supporters help make Geekzone possible. Click the button below to join them.

Support Geezone on PressPatron



Are you subscribed to our RSS feed? You can download the latest headlines and summaries from our stories directly to your computer or smartphone by using a feed reader.

Alternatively, you can receive a daily email with Geekzone updates.