Business's selling new products on trademe, only using imperial measurements.

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mattwnz

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#238061 1-Jul-2018 19:23

I have been looking for some specific sized plumbing fittings on trademe for , and noticed that there are overseas businesses from the UK, selling their products solely with imperial sizes. eg 3/4 inch diameter. I thought everything sold in the NZ market had to be in metric. Does anyone know if this is a legal requirement these days. To have things in imperial is confusing, and I suspect the sizes are slightly different as well.

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Geekzone

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#2046987 1-Jul-2018 19:23

Hmmmm. Here we go.

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Hammerer

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#2046992 1-Jul-2018 19:24

There is no problem with listing imperial sizes for products that use imperial measures. We still need those old fittings and tools.

mattwnz

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#2046994 1-Jul-2018 19:26

Hammerer:

There is no problem with listing imperial sizes for products that use imperial measures. We still need those old fittings and tools.

I was meaning for brand new items that should be in metric, if you go to a local hardware store for the same item. eg a 20mm pipe fitting. I believe in NZ stores, they couldn't just say it is a 3/4 inch fitting, it has to be quoted as 20mm, or shown in both imperial and metric measurements. At least that is my understanding. These trademe listings for new items I have seen only quote the imperial size, and not the metric as well.

Hammerer

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#2047006 1-Jul-2018 19:37

mattwnz:

Hammerer:

There is no problem with listing imperial sizes for products that use imperial measures. We still need those old fittings and tools.

I was meaning for brand new items that should be in metric, if you go to a local hardware store for the same item. eg a 20mm pipe fitting. I beleive in NZ stores they couldn't just say it is a 3/4 inch fitting, it has to be in mm, or at least quoted in both measurements. At least that is my understanding.

I think that you missed my point.They are probably imperial measurements because that is what they are designed to be. I doubt that they are metric products advertised with imperial measurements.

Trade Me is no different to NZ hardware stores which still still sell products that are designed with imperial measures. There are imperial tools, fastenings (screws, nuts, etc), fittings (for furniture e.g. studs), and so on.

If we got rid of imperial products then what would I do when I needed a new plug for my old US sink. Oh, that's right, they don't sell them here so I have to buy from overseas.

I'd bet that products which say 25mm are not the same as 1". Likewise 20mm is not exactly the same as 25/32 (or 19.84mm).

Jase2985

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#2047009 1-Jul-2018 19:41

but 3/4in is not 20mm its 19.05mm

older buildings may still have imperial stuff so why not be able to sell it?

where is your understanding coming from? do you have a reference or a link?

Hammerer

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#2047013 1-Jul-2018 19:58

mattwnz:

I thought everything sold in the NZ market had to be in metric. Does anyone know if this is a legal requirement these days.

No, it is not a requirement.

The Weights and Measures Act 1987 has specific exceptions which would probably cover the example you gave of an overseas trader selling goods on Trade Me which will then be imported.

11 Exceptions to obligation to use metric weights and measures in advertising goods for sale

Nothing in section 10 applies to the use by any person of any unit of a weight or measure which is not a unit of a weight or measure of the metric system on any goods displayed or exposed for sale by retail or on the package of any such goods or on both if—

(a) that unit is additional to a unit of a weight or measure of the metric system and that unit and the figures in which that unit and the numerical value of that unit are marked are no larger than those of that metric weight or measure; and

(b) the goods—

(i) have been imported into New Zealand; or

(ii) are part of a line of goods intended for sale by retail both in New Zealand and another country or were, when marked with the unit of a weight or measure of a system which is not the metric system, intended for sale by retail in another country; and

(c) in the case of the goods referred to in paragraph (b)(ii), those goods were required, by the law of that other country or pursuant to the terms of any contract relating to the import of those goods into that other country, to be marked with that non-metric unit.

richms

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#2047015 1-Jul-2018 20:04

Its not selling you a weight or measure of the product, it is descriptive.

Richard rich.ms

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mattwnz

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#2047033 1-Jul-2018 20:50

Jase2985:

but 3/4in is not 20mm its 19.05mm

older buildings may still have imperial stuff so why not be able to sell it?

where is your understanding coming from? do you have a reference or a link?

I was meaning for common things like standard hose fittings. For example, in Mitre 10 they have a standard hose tap fitting at this link which is solely in metric

https://www.mitre10.co.nz/shop/hozelock-threaded-tap-connector-19mm-and-24mm/p/240622

However I saw a trademe auction for the same sort of thing but only measured in the imperial figure of 3/4 inch, and it said it would fit 95% of all household outdoor taps. There looks to be only a .05mm difference between 19mm and 3/4 inch so maybe the tolerance is fine. But shouldn't they still be quoting in mm if they are selling to the NZ market, because many NZers wouldn't have a clue what an inch equates to in mm, when trying to select the right size?

I do recall reading somewhere that firewood had to now be measured in cubic metres, and couldn't be sold in the old measurement of cords, but maybe that is a different thing, as it is based on a measure, rather than a descriptive size as mention by Rich above.

mattwnz

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#2047035 1-Jul-2018 20:53

Hammerer:

(i) have been imported into New Zealand; or

(ii) are part of a line of goods intended for sale by retail both in New Zealand and another country or were, when marked with the unit of a weight or measure of a system which is not the metric system, intended for sale by retail in another country; and

(c) in the case of the goods referred to in paragraph (b)(ii), those goods were required, by the law of that other country or pursuant to the terms of any contract relating to the import of those goods into that other country, to be marked with that non-metric unit.

Thanks, that is interesting. Maybe that is it.

richms

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#2047039 1-Jul-2018 20:59

It is neither 3/4" or 19mm, the size will be something else. The thread is different to the size of the pipe that it is tapped onto, but has the same measurement as the standardized pipe size. Which also will vary somewhat due to manufacturing. The British standard pipe threads have their metricized equivilent names, but nothing changed with how they are cut or anything.

When they sell a length of pipe by the meter, that is when they have to use metric because they are selling it by that amount, it is no longer simply descriptive.

Richard rich.ms

mattwnz

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#2047041 1-Jul-2018 21:01

richms:

It is neither 3/4" or 19mm, the size will be something else. The thread is different to the size of the pipe that it is tapped onto, but has the same measurement as the standardized pipe size. Which also will vary somewhat due to manufacturing. The British standard pipe threads have their metricized equivilent names, but nothing changed with how they are cut or anything.

When they sell a length of pipe by the meter, that is when they have to use metric because they are selling it by that amount, it is no longer simply descriptive.

Thanks, that has clarified it well for me.

JimmyH

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#2047045 1-Jul-2018 21:12

I'm struggling to see the issue, or why it could be a problem.

As long as the product is clearly, and not deceptively, marked with what it is then I don't see what the problem could be. Personally, I have two sets of spanners and sockets etc, one in metric and one in imperial. I didn't buy the imperial ones in error - I got them deliberately as sometimes I have old or imported stuff to work on and need something that fits exactly. I'm not sure what could be gained by a law saying a retailer can't advertise or sell a 1/4" socket or nut, or a two-pound bag of sugar. As long as the measurements are honest and the labelling is clear.

Personally, I don't care whether they have something for sale labelled in mm, kg, centigrade, litres, inches, pounds, ounces, gallons or fahrenheit - as long as it's clear what it is and what (or how much) I am buying.

richms

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#2047062 1-Jul-2018 21:40

JimmyH:

As long as the product is clearly, and not deceptively, marked with what it is then I don't see what the problem could be. Personally, I have two sets of spanners and sockets etc, one in metric and one in imperial. I didn't buy the imperial ones in error - I got them deliberately as sometimes I have old or imported stuff to work on and need something that fits exactly. I'm not sure what could be gained by a law saying a retailer can't advertise or sell a 1/4" socket or nut, or a two-pound bag of sugar. As long as the measurements are honest and the labelling is clear.

You can't sell a 2 pound bag of sugar tho, it would have be a 0.91 kg bag of sugar on it somewhere, assuming you are using traditional US type pounds, as there are historically many pounds and none of them have any more or less legal standing here which is why the change to metric deleted any reference to the old measurements.

Richard rich.ms

quickymart

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#2047068 1-Jul-2018 21:54

The United Kingdom hasn't really ever converted to the metric system (much like the United States), so they probably wouldn't mention the metric measurements.

However, if you were buying a product in NZ, that would be a different story.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metrication_in_New_Zealand

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metrication_in_the_United_Kingdom

Personally, I think both countries should convert to metric, but if they haven't done it by now, it's probably going to be placed in the "too-hard" basket in the future. I know my American in-laws usually give me a blank look when I talk about things in metric measurements (especially the temperature - that one really throws them).

Journeyman

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#2047083 1-Jul-2018 23:09

I'd like to know what Brad thinks.

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