Harvey Norman stays true to word on CGA, in a bad way!

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surfisup1000

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#249077 24-Apr-2019 10:18

Bought a laptop last year from CGA, and I did make a GZ post at the time how they pressured me into getting the extended warranty...

So, I bought a laptop for my son from Harvey norman today.
The store rep was pushing the extended warranty, did not mention the CGA at all. When I asked about added protection over and above the CGA he said harvey norman will deny any CGA claim outside the standard product warranty and I would be required to take them to the disputes tribunal -- this takes much longer so I am better off with the $250 extended warranty.

This laptop has now failed with an intermittent hardware fault after 14 months. Went to the harvey norman service department, which had a board listing their services (warranty repairs, virus cleaning , etc), but no mention of the CGA.

Explained the fault and the service rep said that I would have to pay for repairs because it was 2 months out of warranty. After I explained the consumer guarantees act to this guy, he still maintained it was out of warranty.

I was very disappointed at their response, this is the same strategy from a decade back. They claim ignorance of their responsibilities, and most people just pay up.

Then I asked to speak to a manager, and told him i was very disappointed that they are just blatantly breaking the law. The manager apologised and said that I was of course covered and the storeperson had just made an honest mistake.

I don't think it was an honest mistake for a moment. They were fulfilling their promise to make CGA claims difficult because I didn't buy an extended warranty!

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#2223116 24-Apr-2019 10:53

They're not stupid that's calculated.

I would bet that head office forced the managers to have a meeting with the staff after Noel Leemings were dragged over the coals not 6 months ago about being discrete about things to avoid negative press.

I would also say the salesperson/service dpt staff member you dealt with was also hoping to avoid having to deal with it and was scaring you off with threats of a pricey repair.

I've seen it and I've been there on both sides of the fence in a past life.

dejadeadnz

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#2223126 24-Apr-2019 11:15

I’ve said this before: if this government and the politicians are serious about consumer rights, they need to make it a criminal offence to intentionally mislead a consumer as to his or her rights under the CGA. Large corporates should also be mandated to run CGA training and compliance programmes.

This will serve two functions - it will help bolster any prosecution case that any misleading of consumers is intentional. In the event that an intention to mislead is found, the staff members (and hopefully the management as well) concerned will have to be known as the criminals that they really are for at least seven years until the clean slate legislation applies.

But will our politicians have the spine to do this? Not a chance. It’s really incredibly outrageous that there are people who seriously think that a consumer should be out of luck and left with a honking piece of trash that cost potentially thousands to buy after at max a couple of years and, often, one year.

k1w1k1d

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#2223132 24-Apr-2019 11:26

Under the CGA, who would actually pay for this repair?

Would Harvey Norman have to foot the bill, or would they pass it back up the chain to their supplier?

howdystranger

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#2223139 24-Apr-2019 12:06

My partner encountered a similar problem with a phone issue at Noel Leeming... 'it's out of warranty, we can't help you', 'but what about the CGA?', 'it's out of warranty we can't help you'. FFS.

Eventually it got sent away and they said it was water damage, so she got them to split the cost of repair.

SpartanVXL

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#2223141 24-Apr-2019 12:08

Ive said this before, CGA is a joke. You want something in this country to last? Dont buy goods that are likely to break.

kobiak

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#2223142 24-Apr-2019 12:09

I'd go DT route and email to ComCom. Also email to head office, with all the evidence and explanation.

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#2223145 24-Apr-2019 12:17

@surfisup1000 next time show them this thread. Just in case, here is the release from the Commerce Commission. If this is not solved I would report them to the Commerce Commission.

Noel Leeming fined $200,000 for misleading consumers

Retailer Noel Leeming Group Limited (Noel Leeming) has today been fined $200,000 for misleading consumers about their rights under the Consumer Guarantees Act (CGA), following a Commerce Commission prosecution.

Noel Leeming was convicted on eight charges under the Fair Trading Act, for making false or misleading representations to consumers about their rights under the CGA.

Each charge relates to a different complainant and the conduct occurred between September 2015 and January 2017 at seven Noel Leeming stores across New Zealand. The complainants purchased consumer goods such as mobile phones, laptops and household appliances.

“This prosecution related to multiple consumers in multiple locations. It was not isolated or ‘one off’ conduct. Consumers complained to Noel Leeming about products and were entitled to have their complaints treated seriously, investigated properly and remedied where appropriate. Instead they were misled – sometimes repeatedly – about their rights under the law, at a moment when it really mattered to consumers that their legal rights were honoured,” said Commissioner Anna Rawlings.

Consumers were misled about:

the right to seek remedies for faulty goods from Noel Leeming rather than the manufacturer
the right to a refund for a faulty product
the right to a replacement for a faulty product.
In sentencing in the Auckland District Court today, Judge Nicola Mathers said there were “direct and significant departures from the truth in every case … consumers were denied their rights and had real difficulty dealing with Noel Leeming.”

One complainant told the court that he got “disruptions, anxiety, stress, [and] the feeling that I was the bad guy because I was inconveniencing them, making their life harder.”

Noel Leeming made misrepresentations such as that:

claims under the CGA about an iPhone had to be negotiated with Apple directly
the CGA “is not effective for” Noel Leeming, and a consumer was not entitled to a refund despite false representations made about the suitability of a mobile phone
a consumer had to contact Microsoft about a faulty product
Noel Leeming could repair a fridge as many times as it liked; the consumer was also told he could only get a store credit to purchase another fridge
mobile phones are only replaced within 14 days, and a new phone could only be obtained if a fault occurs three times
“These statements are simply wrong. The CGA entitles consumers to receive a remedy from Noel Leeming, as the supplier. A supplier cannot refuse to deal with its customers and refer them to the manufacturer. The CGA is also clear about the circumstances in which a refund or replacement is available. These statements should not have been made to consumers,” said Ms Rawlings.

Since 2007 the Commission has three times warned or issued compliance advice to Noel Leeming about potentially misleading consumers as to their CGA rights.

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Fred99

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#2223147 24-Apr-2019 12:19

SpartanVXL: Ive said this before, CGA is a joke. You want something in this country to last? Dont buy goods that are likely to break.

Point taken. The only things I'll buy in future will be titanium ingots and stale gingernuts.

dafman

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#2223149 24-Apr-2019 12:28

SpartanVXL: Ive said this before, CGA is a joke. You want something in this country to last? Dont buy goods that are likely to break.

No, it's not. I've invoked CGA over the years for a variety of out-of-warranty goods and have been successful in getting out of warranty repairs on all occasions.

allan

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#2223165 24-Apr-2019 13:12

dafman:

SpartanVXL: Ive said this before, CGA is a joke. You want something in this country to last? Dont buy goods that are likely to break.

No, it's not. I've invoked CGA over the years for a variety of out-of-warranty goods and have been successful in getting out of warranty repairs on all occasions.

I had to take one supplier to the Disputes Tribunal. They caved the day before the hearing and agreed to repair - which was successful. Cost me the filing fee though.

Handsomedan

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#2223173 24-Apr-2019 13:22

Fred99:

SpartanVXL: Ive said this before, CGA is a joke. You want something in this country to last? Dont buy goods that are likely to break.

Point taken. The only things I'll buy in future will be titanium ingots and stale gingernuts.

I'd be careful with Stale Gingernuts...the wrong brand and you'll find you have a floppy, mouldy mess on your hands...

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SpartanVXL

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#2223223 24-Apr-2019 15:16

Before I get shredded any more I’ll clarify what i mean by “it’s a joke”.

Quite a few retailers here do not take it seriously. If they had to cover everything that the manufacturer couldn’t then they’d lose profit and thats a no no. Therefore SoP is to avoid, or be enough of a pain in the butt that the customer will go away. They have your money already.

Taking them to Disputes Tribunal already breaks the ‘guarantee’ part of the cga. You have to blimmin dispute your right under the law (and pay a fee+time) to actually force the seller to do what they’re obligated to do.

This is why imo the guarantee is a ‘joke’ because it has no hard and fast rules for retailers to abide by. If you give them slack with words like “reasonable or expected life” they will push it as far as they can before they get slapped on the wrist and told not to do it again(hah).

What I mean by buying stuff that won’t break, especially electronics, you have to research failure rates, issues with the product etc. because if you go out and buy something on a dime you wont have any assurances that its covered at all if something does happen.

Even manufacturers 12 month standard warranty isnt safe. I’ve seen people get screwed by the “improper use” excuse, then your only choice is going to disputes for things that may only be a few weeks old. Reasonable use to them is not using the product. Then it’ll never break right?

NotReally

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#2223292 24-Apr-2019 16:34

Retailers' attitudes towards the CGA is another nail in their coffins. The CGA is fast becoming the only reason to buy in NZ as online is cheaper, has far better range and the delivery is usually quick enough. Pushing customers away isn't a great business strategy.

surfisup1000

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#2223298 24-Apr-2019 16:57

howdystranger:

My partner encountered a similar problem with a phone issue at Noel Leeming... 'it's out of warranty, we can't help you', 'but what about the CGA?', 'it's out of warranty we can't help you'. FFS.

Eventually it got sent away and they said it was water damage, so she got them to split the cost of repair.

You were lucky to get a split cost agreement for water damage.

I was disappointed that HN are still ignoring the CGA . I don't blame the storeperson, but management who are either not training their staff or deliberately instructing them on ways to avoid CGA liabilities.

surfisup1000

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#2233550 9-May-2019 11:15

Today I get this text from Harvey Norman....

"Good morning. Sorry for how long this is taking. Repairer is currently waiting for parts arrival to repair your machine.

As a consolation Lenovo have agreed to cover this issue under a one time warranty. Current eta is another 2 weeks"

They are making out like they are doing me some kind of favour by giving a free repair because they are providing such a poor service.

The repairs should be free even if they provided good service! It is like the CGA does not even exist to these people!

Now I'm wondering, if I should ask them for a loan laptop. We really need this laptop, and the ipad is just not and adequate replacement.

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