Advice ??? Consumer Guarantees Act- Defintion Minor or Serious Problem

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Visionnz

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#25386 20-Aug-2008 09:55

Hi, this is my first post... so bear with me, Just looking for some advice in relation to an issue with a product purchased from one of our major appliance outlets here in new zealand. Please see below for details of the situation I Face
- Purchased a QOSMIO G30 for laptop for $4000 in Nov 2006
- Product Faulted in Oct 2007 within warranty - As a result the Video chipset and mainboard were replaced
- Product has faulted again in August 2008

Current Symptoms being identitical to those experienced in Oct 2007 (Artifacts on LCD Screen at load of windows, Upon load of windows blank Screen, Using Safe Mode mulitple changing artifacts appear across screen, System Restore has not resolved the issue, Reloading of Windows XP cannot be completed because of blank screen after reinstallation etc.)

For Others owners experiencing similar issues Reference- http://www.asklaptopfreak.com/laptop-notebook-help/2007/07/08/toshiba-qosmio-g30-screen-problem/

As the product itself is outside of the manufacturers warranty period, I have approached the retailer directly, whom in conjunction with the manufacturer have offered assessment and repair at thier cost, although this is a generous offer my key concern is even with the repair, based on my experience having had the unit repaired for the same fault thier is very little peace of mind when looking to the future lifespan of this product. And my concern is I will face a similar situation to this 11 months in the future. And as the Product is on Hire Purchase for a further 1.5 years the opportunity to purhcase a replacement is a minimum 1.5 years away.

Having raised these concerns with retailer in relation to my understanding of the Consumer Guarantees thier response was

"The motherboard and video chipset are not seen as a major fault but are seen as a minor fault. Under the CGA it is up to the trader to choose between repair, replace or refund. Below is from www.consumeraffairs.govt.nz – it shows minor problems are in the hands of the trader.Minor problems

You can ask the trader to fix the goods. The trader must choose between repairing the goods, replacing the goods or giving you a refund."

As Im not the most technically minded individual, the reason Im looking for advice is to understand from those with a technical background, based on the information available would you agree the issue presented is a "Minor Problem" or as per the consumer guarantees act a "Serious Problem" the consumer guarentees act defintion being

Serious problems

If the problem is a serious one (the goods are unsafe, substantially do not meet acceptable quality, fitness for particular purpose, description or sample), you can choose to:

return (reject) the goods and get your money back, or
return the goods for a replacement of similar value and type (if the goods are reasonably available as part of the supplier's stock ), or
keep the goods and have the price reduced to make up for its drop in value.

At this stage the point of contention is the degree of the problem (e.g Minor or Serious) as indicates whom dictates the solution (trader or Consumer) , I fully understand the realty is this may only come from a disputes tribunal.

However to help me decide on the position I should take, some feedback would certainly be appriectiated.

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#158280 20-Aug-2008 11:08

If the product is failing as seriously as you indicate, that would seem to me to fall into the serious fault category in the 2 areas you have highlighted (quality and fitness).

One approach you could take is:
1. Approach a lawyer through the Citizens Advice Bureau (CAB) and gain clarification on the relevant provisions in the CGA. This won't cost you anything.
2. Subsequent to any advice received at 1., approach your retailer again and advise him you've sought legal opinion, think the fault is serious and you want the product replaced with something fit for the purpose which it is designed and of acceptable quality. Be firm but polite - the retailer has indicated they are not unreasonable by offering to repair your product at no cost to you.

Another approach could be to accept their offer of repair, but insist on having the repair warranted for a minimum of 12 months.

Document everything, and when you've been back to the retailer post back here and let us know how you got on.

Good luck!

[Edit] PS: Welcome to Geekzone.

billgates

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#158291 20-Aug-2008 11:37

Retailer is paying from their own pocket to get the laptop fixed under the CGA. Just get if fixed and move on. Chances of it crapping out again are very very rare. Under the CGA you will not get a replacment. Manufacturer decides what is a serious fault, not the consumer or the retailer. Just be lucky that the retailer is supporting you with the CGA and fixing the laptop for free of charge.

bazzer

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#158297 20-Aug-2008 11:55

I agree with the retailer that it is a minor fault. However, seeing as you already had the exact fault repaired less than a year ago, I wouldn't feel that confident that the problem wouldn't happen yet again. What kind of assurances can the retailer give you? Why should this repair work any better than the previous repair, or will you be back in under a year for another reapir job?

I would have lost confidence in the quality of this product. I say if it breaks twice in a year of the same fault then it doesn't meet acceptable quality. I'm not a lawyer, so who knows what they might say. If the shop won't budge you only have two choices:

1) Try another repair, maybe it will work fine this time.
2) Take legal action (as detailed above). Perhaps the threat of legal action will be all it takes to get some kind of resolution anyway.

Visionnz

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#158298 20-Aug-2008 11:58

Thanks for the advice Dratsab, Billgates and Bazzer all your feedback is much appriecated, As you would will recognise im trying to establish the best option moving forward, I will definetly update you on my decision and ultimately the outcome .

sbiddle

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#158305 20-Aug-2008 12:12

I think this is a classic scenarion where extended warranties can be useful. Plenty of people say you don't need one because the CGA guarantees products however as people have pointed out invoking the CGA and lodging a claim may be a lot of effort that may not necessarily get you a result. Many extended warranties from retailers offer a new replacement.

billgates

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#158310 20-Aug-2008 12:18

sbiddle:
I think this is a classic scenarion where extended warranties can be useful. Plenty of people say you don't need one because the CGA guarantees products however as people have pointed out invoking the CGA and lodging a claim may be a lot of effort that may not necessarily get you a result. Many extended warranties from retailers offer a new replacement.

and they also cover fair wear n tear which CGA does not covers. Also if you are planning to sell the laptop on Trade Me or in an Auction, CGA does not applies to those auctions but you can transfer the extended warranty to the new owner.

Do whatever you want to do man.

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Dratsab

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#158311 20-Aug-2008 12:27

sbiddle: I think this is a classic scenarion where extended warranties can be useful. Plenty of people say you don't need one because the CGA guarantees products however as people have pointed out invoking the CGA and lodging a claim may be a lot of effort that may not necessarily get you a result. Many extended warranties from retailers offer a new replacement.

Quite agree. I've always gone for extended warranties.

bazzer: 2) Take legal action (as detailed above). Perhaps the threat of legal action will be all it takes to get some kind of resolution anyway.

I think taking or threatening legal action would be a bit of overkill at this stage. Negotiation comes first.

I didn't suggest taking legal action, I merely suggested seeking legal clarification over the relevant provisions in the CGA. Any advice gained would then put Visionnnz in a more certain position when speaking with retailer.

rscole86

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#158316 20-Aug-2008 12:39

Welcome to geekzone!

It is unfortuante that this has happened to you, however as other have pointed out extended warranties are very useful in this situation.
Regardless of what repair work has been in the past, all repairs/replacements come with a 90 day service warranty, which you are clearly out of luck on.

I hate to sound rude, but why anyone would finance something with terms greater than the warranty period is beyond me, for this very reason!

I would send this off to get this repaired at their expense, they are offering that to you so take them up on their offer! See what happens, they may come back and explain it is too expensive to repair and will replace it anyway... who knows? That may give you an opportunity to get an extended warranty.

Some manufacturers offer what is called a 'lemon guarantee' (it cannot be called that in NZ), where if the product exhibits the same fault three or more times within a reasonable time frame, and this can be up to a few years, they will repair it free of charge.

Get it repair now while you can, and then see what happens afterwards, you may not need to stress out after this repair is done.

Finally, is this for work purposes? If it is, then you have NO rights under the CGA. But the manufacturer will cover you under their standard terms. Again if it was purchased for work purposes, regardless of the volume of work, then an extended warranty will quite often cover you, depending on the company.

Good luck!

bradi

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#158500 20-Aug-2008 22:40

Without knowing more about the warranty offered with the lappy it's hard to say if the retailer is being fair or not (which is basically what the CGA is about). The OEM warranty should give an idea of what the equipment should be used for. Make up your mind from that if you think you got a fair deal, if not follow it up, this is how the CGA works :)

Personally, I would take the lappy to an authorised Toshiba service centre and get them to diagnose the problem for you so you actually know if your G30 actually has a manufacturing defect or not. If not take the repair and be happy. If it does I think you should get the choice of a repair, replace or refund, since it's pretty much a known problem the retailer should have no problem with getting the problem dealt with by the OEM and it makes alot more sense to keep a happy customer (and good word of mouth) then to loose a customer over something which is a known problem. How the retailer deals with the problem (which so far sounds promising) should be a tell tale sign to future (existing) customers. Word of mouth (yay Internet, double yay Google) is a powerful marketing tool.

I hope you are happy with the outcome, however it turns out.

Regs

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Snowflake

#158515 21-Aug-2008 00:33

billgates: Retailer is paying from their own pocket to get the laptop fixed under the CGA. Just get if fixed and move on. Chances of it crapping out again are very very rare. Under the CGA you will not get a replacment. Manufacturer decides what is a serious fault, not the consumer or the retailer. Just be lucky that the retailer is supporting you with the CGA and fixing the laptop for free of charge.

given that the laptop has crapped out for the same fault twice already its quite a likely scenario that it will fail again. there have been several laptop models from different vendors that have had mass failures of the same component. e.g. one laptop i know of had a mainboard fault that required a mainboard replacement and it seemed to occur in some some 50% of shipping units.

we have had various laptops at the office over the years from three different vendors and teh only thing in common is that nearly every laptop has developed a fault of some sort over time. Some models had screen issues, some models had HDD issues, some models had mainboard issues and every now and then a laptop would have an issue that was not repeated on any of the other machines - modem, cd drive etc. I now make it a point to only buy laptops with 3 year warranties.

As far as taking *this* faulty laptop back - you could always ask them if they could replace it with an equivalent (but different) model from their refurbished stock - one that isnt affected by what seems to be a 'common' problem

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Lias

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#158662 21-Aug-2008 13:40

On the Target show the other night they had a segment that mentioned part of the "fitness" under the CGA is that the goods must last for a reasonable time period, and stated that computers should last 5 years. It basically said if your product doesnt last that long you have a reasonable case to demand repair/replacement under the CGA.

As others have said thou it seems like a laod of hassle, I just got a 5 year wrranty with my laptop.. its guaranteed to die in that timeframe.

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billgates

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#158667 21-Aug-2008 13:48

Lias: On the Target show the other night they had a segment that mentioned part of the "fitness" under the CGA is that the goods must last for a reasonable time period, and stated that computers should last 5 years. It basically said if your product doesnt last that long you have a reasonable case to demand repair/replacement under the CGA.

As others have said thou it seems like a laod of hassle, I just got a 5 year wrranty with my laptop.. its guaranteed to die in that timeframe.

Computers should last for 3 years and TV for 5 years....Computers have a built in DVD/CD writer....the laser will only last 3 years....LCD TV use back light and it's a fluroscent light....but on average they will only last for 3~4 years....but then again it's a consumable....don't believe everything you see on TV....

Do whatever you want to do man.

Byrned

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#158727 21-Aug-2008 16:05

Lias: On the Target show the other night they had a segment that mentioned part of the "fitness" under the CGA is that the goods must last for a reasonable time period, and stated that computers should last 5 years. It basically said if your product doesnt last that long you have a reasonable case to demand repair/replacement under the CGA.

As others have said thou it seems like a laod of hassle, I just got a 5 year wrranty with my laptop.. its guaranteed to die in that timeframe.

It actually really infuriates me when I see these shows start saying generalised statements that an item should last this long when they have no idea of the quality of manufacture!

IMO if a manufacture gives an item a 1 year warranty then they are saying we expect it to last 1 year with no problems based on the quality of components that we have put into it. Only the manufacturer is realistically in a position to say how long something should last. If I want it to last longer buy something of higher quality that has a longer warranty period.

The CGA is in place to protect both consumers and retailers by setting rules by which everyone must play by - unfortunately when it was written it was done like most other laws and is nothing but grey! Why can't it be "The goods will be fit for use for the warranted period of time. If the fault happens twice in the warranted time the item will be replaced/refunded (a lemon clause). If a fault reoccurs outside of warranty not greater than the period of the warranty (i.e. motherboard goes at month 6 and then again at month 15 on an item with a 12mth warranty) then that part will still be covered. Oh, and the onus should be with the manufacturer/distributor first, and then the retailer!

Sorry, just my rant!

Bung

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#158732 21-Aug-2008 16:25

Byrned:
Oh, and the onus should be with the manufacturer/distributor first, and then the retailer!

According to one other Geekzone poster/distributor the big retailers set both retail and wholesale prices so why shouldn't they bear the brunt of their decision to market crap.

rscole86

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#158735 21-Aug-2008 16:36

Bung:
Byrned:
Oh, and the onus should be with the manufacturer/distributor first, and then the retailer!

According to one other Geekzone poster/distributor the big retailers set both retail and wholesale prices so why shouldn't they bear the brunt of their decision to market crap.

Sorry but that is not the case, the distributors and manufacturers set the RRPs. It is up to the retailer as to whether or not they follow suit.
Calling them crap is harsh, how many cases do you see coming back vs the number of units sold? If it was really that bad then; 1) they would not be sold, 2) they would be recalled, 3) the manufacturer would be bust, 4) there would be A LOT more people getting systems made to order.

Sorry Bung, but I do not think your statement is correct.

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