How was everyones celebrate terrorism 1605 style this year?

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mentalinc

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#260020 6-Nov-2019 22:03

Hey All

So we had the same outcome we have every year.

Very busy fire service, large fires.

Animals hurt/distress etc etc...

Yet all in the name of a celebration? of an attempted terror plot from 1605?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gunpowder_Plot

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guy_Fawkes

This year we had documents, videos, games etc being classified as objectionable material (which I agree with, and not the purpose of this thread, there was another thread on that) based on the unfortunate events of early this year in Christchurch.

We have a government "leading" social media on blocking that type of content.

Yet every year, without fail we have the great celebration that spans days and weeks celebrating the terror event of 1605?

The TLDR for those who didn't click on the links above:

The Gunpowder Plot of 1605, was a failed assassination attempt against King James I by a group of provincial English Catholics led by Robert Catesby. The plan was to blow up the House of Lords during the State Opening of Parliament on 5 November 1605... On the evening on 4 November 1605, Fawkes was discovered guarding 36 barrels of gunpowder—enough to reduce the House of Lords to rubble—and arrested

In 1605 they had a religious group, trying to kill the king and wipe out the House of Lords...

So should the we not be banning fireworks based on the terrorist links?

What will we think if in 400 years people are "celebrating" in a similar fashion the Christchurch events?

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#2349132 6-Nov-2019 22:07

Did not even notice it was on here.

I presume it is only celebrated in NZ as a result of being passed down by British settlers.

Feel free to drop it. I might occasionally remember to have a bonfire etc, as it's culturally appropriate.

Kookoo

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#2349139 6-Nov-2019 23:28

Not a fan of the fireworks, but the celebration is for the capture and execution of Guy Fawkes and the plot failure. Claiming that this is a celebration of a terrorist plot isn't quite right, shall we say. Having said that, it's got very little relevance to modern day New Zealand either way.

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Journeyman

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#2349145 7-Nov-2019 05:10

mentalinc: Hey All So we had the same outcome we have every year. Very busy fire service, large fires. Animals hurt/distress etc etc... Yet all in the name of a celebration? of an attempted terror plot from 1605? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gunpowder_Plot https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guy_Fawkes

...

Yet every year, without fail we have the great celebration that spans days and weeks celebrating the terror event of 1605? The TLDR for those who didn't click on the links above: The Gunpowder Plot of 1605, was a failed assassination attempt against King James I by a group of provincial English Catholics led by Robert Catesby. The plan was to blow up the House of Lords during the State Opening of Parliament on 5 November 1605... On the evening on 4 November 1605, Fawkes was discovered guarding 36 barrels of gunpowder—enough to reduce the House of Lords to rubble—and arrested In 1605 they had a religious group, trying to kill the king and wipe out the House of Lords... So should the we not be banning fireworks based on the terrorist links? What will we think if in 400 years people are "celebrating" in a similar fashion the Christchurch events?

I don't understand how you wrote all of that and even included wikipedia links yet you still don't seem to understand the purpose of the celebrations.

Shadowfoot

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#2349146 7-Nov-2019 06:05

It is the celebration of a guy’s failure to blow up a foreign parliament.

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SirHumphreyAppleby

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#2349147 7-Nov-2019 06:21

So should the we not be banning fireworks based on the terrorist links? What will we think if in 400 years people are "celebrating" in a similar fashion the Christchurch events?

Guy Fawkes was more than 22.3 years ago, so it's okay. We're not celebrating the terrorism, we're celebrating his defeat. Two very different things.

As for what human society may be celebrating in 400 years, that'll depend on prevailing values.

minimoke

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#2349150 7-Nov-2019 07:17

If there is one thing worth celebrating its the uncovering and stopping of a terrorism plot that aimed to kill the head of State who was all for greater religious tolerance.

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tdgeek

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#2349164 7-Nov-2019 08:10

Im ok with it, but fireworks need to be banned except for supervised parks, and no sky rockets. Families go to the park, fire service has a guy there to manage little fires, or go to a pyrotechnics display. Fines start at $1000 cash.

Lias

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#2349204 7-Nov-2019 08:15

I don't have any real attachment to the occasion, just the fireworks. I'm all for stopping only selling fireworks at Guy Fawkes and just making them a normal commodity that can be purchased 365 days a year. Sadly the vocal minority keep pushing to have the sale of them banned, eventually I suspect they'll win and I'll have to get motivated to get a certified handler certificate and just make my own :-)

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tdgeek

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#2349205 7-Nov-2019 08:21

Lias:

I don't have any real attachment to the occasion, just the fireworks. I'm all for stopping only selling fireworks at Guy Fawkes and just making them a normal commodity that can be purchased 365 days a year. Sadly the vocal minority keep pushing to have the sale of them banned, eventually I suspect they'll win and I'll have to get motivated to get a certified handler certificate and just make my own :-)

I think you are the vocal minority

AKL did a survey of 8000, 90% want them banned

ACC pays $3.3 million in claims

272 are injured

I guess you could triple the price to recover the 3.3 million and payout the Fire Service and DHB's, thats fair and equal. It can be a free worls in youre eyes, you just need to be fair and pay for what you cause

surfisup1000

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#2349211 7-Nov-2019 08:37

Fireworks is one of those things where you lose interest in them as you get older.

I'm in two minds, I would like them banned. But, people do have the right to enjoy them , as I did when I was a child/teenager.

Maybe a ban on using them outside the guy fawkes sale period would be a compromise?

Some old neighbours used to stockpile them and would sporadically let them off over a full year .

SirHumphreyAppleby

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#2349212 7-Nov-2019 08:39

tdgeek:

Im ok with it, but fireworks need to be banned except for supervised parks, and no sky rockets. Families go to the park, fire service has a guy there to manage little fires, or go to a pyrotechnics display. Fines start at $1000 cash.

I disagree. What we have now are potentially far more dangerous than the sky rockets and crackers we had in the past. The solution IMO is to relax the regulations. I know, that sounds absurd, but the majority of calls for a ban are based on two factors; noise and damage.

Our regulations limit pyrotechnic composition to 40g. In order to get any sort of effect with such a limited amount of powder, the composition must be more energetic. More energy means more nose and more potental for harm.

We already have an extensive framework in place for certifying retail fireworks. Some minor tweaks to that could address the concerns. An outright ban is not necessary.

tdgeek:

I think you are the vocal minority

AKL did a survey of 8000, 90% want them banned

This wasn't a survey. Auckland Council had 7,997 submissions on their proposal, of which 89% agreed. This process was promoted by the Council on social media and was not presented in a neutral way. Of the submissions, how many do you think actually took the time to write a submission that wasn't at most a single statement devoid of any factualy analysis?

I can't answer that as the Council has not released the submissions, only a poor quality 'summary', but I would think the majority of the 7,075 submissions that included any sort of comment would fall in to that category.

I did make a submission, but even I limited it to a couple of pages. When the time comes to make submissions to central government, I will do so then.

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tdgeek

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#2349214 7-Nov-2019 08:40

surfisup1000:

Fireworks is one of those things where you lose interest in them as you get older.

I'm in two minds, I would like them banned. But, people do have the right to enjoy them , as I did when I was a child/teenager.

Maybe a ban on using them outside the guy fawkes sale period would be a compromise?

Some old neighbours used to stock up their garage full of fireworks and would sporadically let them off over a full year .

Who will pay ACC, DHB and the Fire Service costs? If its ok to enjoy them on 5 Nov its ok to enjoy them 24/7 365. Its not about enjoyment its about injuries and damage to people's property. Go to a display

Lias

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#2349217 7-Nov-2019 08:43

tdgeek:

surfisup1000:

Fireworks is one of those things where you lose interest in them as you get older.

I'm in two minds, I would like them banned. But, people do have the right to enjoy them , as I did when I was a child/teenager.

Maybe a ban on using them outside the guy fawkes sale period would be a compromise?

Some old neighbours used to stock up their garage full of fireworks and would sporadically let them off over a full year .

Who will pay ACC, DHB and the Fire Service costs? If its ok to enjoy them on 5 Nov its ok to enjoy them 24/7 365. Its not about enjoyment its about injuries and damage to people's property. Go to a display

Ok boomer :-P

tdgeek

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#2349219 7-Nov-2019 08:44

SirHumphreyAppleby:

tdgeek:

Im ok with it, but fireworks need to be banned except for supervised parks, and no sky rockets. Families go to the park, fire service has a guy there to manage little fires, or go to a pyrotechnics display. Fines start at $1000 cash.

I disagree. What we have now are potentially far more dangerous than the sky rockets and crackers we had in the past. The solution IMO is to relax the regulations. I know, that sounds absurd, but the majority of calls for a ban are based on two factors; noise and damage.

Our regulations limit pyrotechnic composition to 40g. In order to get any sort of effect with such a limited amount of powder, the composition must be more energetic. More energy means more nose and more potental for harm.

We already have an extensive framework in place for certifying retail fireworks. Some minor tweaks to that could address the concerns. An outright ban is not necessary.

tdgeek:

I think you are the vocal minority

AKL did a survey of 8000, 90% want them banned

This wasn't a survey. Auckland Council had 7,997 submissions on their proposal, of which 89% agreed. This process was promoted by the Council on social media and was not presented in a neutral way. Of the submissions, how many do you think actually took the time to write a submission that wasn't at most a single statement devoid of any factualy analysis?

I can't answer that as the Council has not released the submissions, only a poor quality 'summary', but I would think the majority of the 7,075 submissions that included any sort of comment would fall in to that category.

I did make a submission, but even I limited it to a couple of pages. When the time comes to make submissions to central government, I will do so then.

I disagree with your "opinion" If we go your way, we need to ban fire bans. Why should I be told I cant light an open fire in Summer? But I can foir rockets into the sky on what was a hot Nov night, so I can cause injury and damage that someone has to pay for

OR lets add levies onto fireworks to recover the annual costs, so that those that use them, pay for it

tdgeek

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#2349221 7-Nov-2019 08:46

Lias:

tdgeek:

surfisup1000:

Fireworks is one of those things where you lose interest in them as you get older.

I'm in two minds, I would like them banned. But, people do have the right to enjoy them , as I did when I was a child/teenager.

Maybe a ban on using them outside the guy fawkes sale period would be a compromise?

Some old neighbours used to stock up their garage full of fireworks and would sporadically let them off over a full year .

Who will pay ACC, DHB and the Fire Service costs? If its ok to enjoy them on 5 Nov its ok to enjoy them 24/7 365. Its not about enjoyment its about injuries and damage to people's property. Go to a display

Ok boomer :-P

You always want everything to be free and available. Thats fine. But surely you dont have an objection to paying for the damage you caused? Seems fair and equal to me

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