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duckDecoy

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#281430 17-Feb-2021 12:14
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My father got a random walk up offer on his property the other day that seemed pretty good given what the units have sold around him for over the last few months, so he will likely take it. 

 

He is single in his mid 70s and is thinking he'll move to a retirement home on the North Shore Auckland (although I don't see why he couldn't consider other areas).  I'm after advice on what things to look for and any fishhooks or gotchas etc.  Plus any recommendations/warnings about any specific places

 

He's downloaded the Metlife brochures and they seem to do a pretty good job of explaining what services are offered and how much things will cost, and how costs change if he moves from an independent apartment to a serviced one to a full care facility.   He would ideally move to a village that has all 3 of these so he can transition as he ages.

 

His upper limit would probably be around 800k, he has been offered 950k for his unit and thinks 150k would be a good amount to have left over for paying the weekly fees and his general living expenses.  There are villages with units cheaper than 800k, generally they are the older ones.

 

 

 

So: any advice?   Any hidden expenses that catch people out that he needs to take into consideration?  Any places that are known to be good or equally are known to be problematic?   Most of the obvious stuff like does it have a pool, a shuttle etc are specified in the brochures and he can deal with those.  But anything you think would be useful to help him make the decision that might not be obvious would be helpful.


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Yoban
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  #2658158 17-Feb-2021 12:21
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Just make sure that the place he moves to will mean he does not need to move again as a result of illness, medical conditions.  So finding a place that has a rest home and hospital care would be high on the requirements list. You generally loose 30% when you need to sell.

 

My friend's folks didn't consider this, so if they get to a point were they cannot look after themselves, then they will need to move again.....


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martyyn
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  #2658166 17-Feb-2021 12:39
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My MIL moved into a place 18 months ago and based the decision on the fact she wouldn't have to move again, the room (which is lovely), the location (close enough for us to get to every couple of days), the price (not cheap but not the most expensive either) but most importantly they would allow her to keep her cat (others wouldn't).

 

The one thing I regret to this day was to ask about the food. You assume basics like that would be excellent given the price you pay but nope, the food is disgusting.

 

Recently she was served a cold cheese and onion toastie, one slice of apple, one segment of orange and a pot of yoghurt for her main meal. The lack of fruit and vegetables on a daily basis is astounding. Even her cat wouldn't eat the meat they served on occasion.

 

We made countless complaints but in the end we just had to buy her food and leave it in the fridge. But you guessed it, more often than not someone else ate it, even when it was named and in a separate container.

 

The day to day staff, cleaners and nurses are lovely but the management don't give a monkeys as long as you keep paying the bill.

 

Speaking of which, she sadly passed away two weeks ago, but yesterday we received an invoice for an appointment which was three days after she died with a note to say it was overdue. How do you get something like that so wrong ?

 

My advice would be to not leave any stone unturned in working out what is right for him.

 

 


mentalinc
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  #2658173 17-Feb-2021 12:48
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Be clear to understand if the price is fair. Get some others to give a valuation (could be money/ time well spent)

 

Talk to the neighbours, see if they had the same offer and if they did work together to push up the price. Three houses side by side, working together, they will get more value from the "knock on the door" number.

 

If they are in the rigt place, three places get knocked and developer builds over 30 apartments for $750k each... Is that 950k looking like a good share of the value now?





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Handsomedan
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  #2658184 17-Feb-2021 12:55
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My parents moved into a village in Dunedin a few years ago - it covers all of the various stages from independent townhouses to serviced apartments to resthome/care facility and hospice. 

 

The only fishook really is that the care part of a village costs an absolute fortune - if you have any money, it's taken from that first before any assistance is given by the govt. 

 

Obviously you don't make capital gain on selling the occupancy rights (as you never own the apartment/house/unit/whatever), but the village does - and they take an average of 20% of the sale proceeds as well, if you "move on". 

 

 

 

Overall though - they're very pleased with what they have. 

 

A new village has been built down the road from us in Unsworth Heights and it looks nice enough. 

 

It's all apartments though - the Villas were only ever going to be a small part of the village and there is always a waiting list for them. 

 

The Apartments seem well priced and when I went for a wander around there last year (pre-lockdown) with my mum when she was visiting, it looked very nice. 

 

Greenwich Gardens is the village and their site has a virtual tour, should he be interested in looking at it. 

 

FYI - there are a lot of empty apartments, so the prices may have come down since we looked at them. 

 

 

 

 





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Kookoo
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  #2658230 17-Feb-2021 13:08
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duckDecoy:

 

So: any advice?   Any hidden expenses that catch people out that he needs to take into consideration?  Any places that are known to be good or equally are known to be problematic?   Most of the obvious stuff like does it have a pool, a shuttle etc are specified in the brochures and he can deal with those.  But anything you think would be useful to help him make the decision that might not be obvious would be helpful.

 

 

A few things to look into here.

 

1) The tranisitioning story sounds great, but there's a reason there are only a few such villages around. Is this built around re-configuring the unit into an assisted living, and later, full care unit? Or will he at some stage need to move to an assisted living facility within the village? In which case how is the financial side of the matter resolved?

 

Because if he will need to move from the unit to an assisted living facility/room, the only advantage of staying in the same village is to maintain social links that he may have established by then. And if that's not critical, may as well consider other villages that don't offer this kind of transition.

 

2) Unless there's a different arrangement to the ones I've seen, the cost of the full care facility is unrelated to the initial unit purchase. You don't "buy" these - you pay a monthly fee which rises steeply. My old man's monthly fee when up by over 50% within 3 years.

 

3) Talk to the employees. Not the sales or admin, but the care workers. Ask how long they've worked there for. High staff turnover is indicative of issues.

 

4) Food is less relevant if your father is going to cook for himself. But at some stage it will become relevant, so may as well ask if you can try a standard meal they cook for residents.

 

5) Do they have full time or visiting services such as hairdressers, podiatrists, etc. Full time on-site is much more convenient.





Hello, Ground!

duckDecoy

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  #2658244 17-Feb-2021 13:35
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Handsomedan:

 

The only fishook really is that the care part of a village costs an absolute fortune - if you have any money, it's taken from that first before any assistance is given by the govt. 

 

 

Does anyone know what happens if you are in a full care part of the village and your $$ runs out?  Does government assistance cover you in private villages, or would he need to move somewhere else?

 

 

 

Handsomedan:

 

A new village has been built down the road from us in Unsworth Heights and it looks nice enough. 

 

 

That's one of the places he is looking at :)


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  #2658245 17-Feb-2021 13:37
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duckDecoy:

 

Handsomedan:

 

The only fishook really is that the care part of a village costs an absolute fortune - if you have any money, it's taken from that first before any assistance is given by the govt. 

 

 

Does anyone know what happens if you are in a full care part of the village and your $$ runs out?  Does government assistance cover you in private villages, or would he need to move somewhere else?

 

Yes, govt assistance kicks in to cover costs





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Kookoo
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  #2658251 17-Feb-2021 13:44
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duckDecoy:

 

Handsomedan:

 

The only fishook really is that the care part of a village costs an absolute fortune - if you have any money, it's taken from that first before any assistance is given by the govt. 

 

 

Does anyone know what happens if you are in a full care part of the village and your $$ runs out?  Does government assistance cover you in private villages, or would he need to move somewhere else?

 

 

Full care facility charges are regulated, and the provider is limited by how much they can charge for "basic" service. But almost no providers offer basic service, so you end up with a hefty bill. There is partial government support which isn't means tested, but full support for "basic" service kicks in when the sum of all assets is about 250K off the top of my head. But then you're of course still left with the bill for the unavoidable extras.





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neb

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  #2658259 17-Feb-2021 13:52
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duckDecoy:

He is single in his mid 70s and is thinking he'll move to a retirement home on the North Shore Auckland (although I don't see why he couldn't consider other areas).  I'm after advice on what things to look for and any fishhooks or gotchas etc.  Plus any recommendations/warnings about any specific places

 

 

Consumer regularly cover this topic, most recently in their current issue. For something as capital-intensive as this it's probably worth paying whatever one-off fee you need to access all their info on this, there's an awful lot of things to watch out for - the places are run to make the owners as much money as possible, not to benefit the inhabitants - far too much to summarise here.

Wheelbarrow01
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  #2658331 17-Feb-2021 14:43
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neb:
duckDecoy:

 

He is single in his mid 70s and is thinking he'll move to a retirement home on the North Shore Auckland (although I don't see why he couldn't consider other areas).  I'm after advice on what things to look for and any fishhooks or gotchas etc.  Plus any recommendations/warnings about any specific places

 

Consumer regularly cover this topic, most recently in their current issue. For something as capital-intensive as this it's probably worth paying whatever one-off fee you need to access all their info on this, there's an awful lot of things to watch out for - the places are run to make the owners as much money as possible, not to benefit the inhabitants - far too much to summarise here.

 

Agreed. We looked around for a while but in the end, my mother didn't want to buy a unit and then have 30-40% of the purchase price lining the village owner's pocket upon her demise. She wanted us all to have her money - not them.

 

In the end, she just rented a room in a village (she needed rest home care not just an independent villa). The room cost around $1200* a week including all resthome care fees, meals etc, but because she never structured her affairs effectively 20 years ago, she received no government subsidy. She didn't sell the family home - we rented it out which helped cover the cost of her care.

 

In general, she hated it. The food was pretty average, and she wasn't a fan of "old people" - while her 79 year old body was tired, she was very young in the mind, and she had no interest in knitting, board games, bingo etc and all the other activities they tried to keep the oldies entertained with. All she wanted to do was go back to her home full of memories the whole time she was there.

 

*Price based on Christchurch circa 2012

 

[EDIT - spelling]

 

 


wellygary
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  #2658334 17-Feb-2021 14:45
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neb:

 

Consumer regularly cover this topic, most recently in their current issue. For something as capital-intensive as this it's probably worth paying whatever one-off fee you need to access all their info on this, there's an awful lot of things to watch out for - the places are run to make the owners as much money as possible, not to benefit the inhabitants - far too much to summarise here.

 

If he has any cash leftover from the transaction, buy some Ryman shares, then at least he can hedge himself a bit :)

 

 


neb

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  #2658377 17-Feb-2021 14:49
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Wheelbarrow01:

In general, she hated it. The food was pretty average, and she wasn't a fan of "old people" - while her 79 year old body was tired, she was very young in the mind, and she had no interest in knitting, board games, bingo etc and all the other activities they tried to keep the oldies entertained with. All she wanted to do was go back to her home full of memoried the whole time she was there.

 

 

I've had the same experience, two older (in their 80s) aunts who sold up and within a year or so wished they'd never done it. So the first thing to consider would be, are you really, really sure you want to do this?

Wheelbarrow01
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  #2658465 17-Feb-2021 14:58
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neb:
Wheelbarrow01:

 

In general, she hated it. The food was pretty average, and she wasn't a fan of "old people" - while her 79 year old body was tired, she was very young in the mind, and she had no interest in knitting, board games, bingo etc and all the other activities they tried to keep the oldies entertained with. All she wanted to do was go back to her home full of memoried the whole time she was there.

 

I've had the same experience, two older (in their 80s) aunts who sold up and within a year or so wished they'd never done it. So the first thing to consider would be, are you really, really sure you want to do this?

 

Yes, im my mum's case she actually moved from one home to another after a year or so - this was easy to do as she hadn't bought anything. Unfortunately the second home (where she also rented a room instead of buying) wasn't much better, however it was much closer to family, so she was much happier as both me and my sister could easily call in most nights on our way home from work to see her. 

 

Returning home was never really a possibility - she stayed there alone for a few years after dad passed away, but the risk of falls etc became just too great, and she wasn't looking after herself. Ironically her home help allowance was cut in half after dad died - "well there's only one of you now so you only need half the help". Unbelieveable, but absolutely true.

 

I guess if you commit to buying a villa/unit/room etc and then hate it, you face a +/-30% loss of capital to get out and find somewhere else, so you best be sure it's the right place for you....


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  #2658474 17-Feb-2021 15:15
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Wheelbarrow01:

 

In general, she hated it. The food was pretty average, and she wasn't a fan of "old people" - while her 79 year old body was tired, she was very young in the mind, and she had no interest in knitting, board games, bingo etc and all the other activities they tried to keep the oldies entertained with. All she wanted to do was go back to her home full of memories the whole time she was there.

 

 

Quite different to my 81 year old parents' experience - not only are they independent (so in charge of their own meals and care), but they have an amazing time - they go on day trips (usually ending up with a booze-up) and they have a "gang" of geriatrics they call "The Old Farts" that basically have an absolute hoot! 

 

Dad bowls, mum joined the ukulele band and then promptly gave up as she found she had no rhythm or tone and they both really love the people in the village. 

 

They have Friday drinks where most residents converge on a community hall and drink and chat and play darts and all that kind of thing and the residents committee organise shows and musical guests to do gigs etc that are age appropriate (i.e. no hardcore Slipknot tribute bands etc). 

 

 





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Handsome Dan does not currently have a side hustle as the mascot for Yale 

 

 

 

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duckDecoy

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  #2658476 17-Feb-2021 15:18
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Thanks for the replies so far.   Its interesting to hear that some people didn't enjoy the experience at all, we will have to make sure he knows what he's in for.   Renting rather than buying isn't an option I knew about, so we'll look into that as well.

 

Money wise we don't care how much of a bite they take, or what they charge for care.  If it's what he wants to do then it's his money to do it with.


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