NZ Broadband testing from Samknows

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#2348992 6-Nov-2019 13:40

grimwulf:

Don't condone this in any way, clearly it's an attempt to game the system to a certain extent.

However, 2Degrees in this instance are simply unlucky they were caught out (or reported by someone) - you'd have to be naive to expect that other ISPs aren't doing this if they can somehow identify volunteers (which through various means is probably quite easy to do).

My opinion is that this is probably pretty common amongst ISPs and 2Degrees were simply caught out.

I would just like to utterly refute any suggestion that Spark has ever, or will ever attempt to game the Samknows results. If you are a Samknows volunteer on the Spark network your connection gets treated no differently to any other Spark customer. I.e. you will get the same great Spark network performance whether you Samknows volunteer or not.

My views are my own, and may not necessarily represent those of my employer.

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#2348996 6-Nov-2019 13:54

Hammerer:

It is interesting that the code of conduct that specifically disallows such behaviour is only a few months old. Did 2degrees forget to tell their staff?

https://comcom.govt.nz/__data/assets/pdf_file/0025/157417/MBNZ-code-of-conduct-July-2019.PDF

The breach was from July to November 2018. I'd imagine the code of conduct was introduced thanks to the incident.

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#2349035 6-Nov-2019 16:09

And it was reported in NZH: https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12282889

"2degrees then took steps to try to enhance the broadband performance of some of the 14 volunteers it had identified using the script."

The identity and other information about the volunteers was then circulated among 2degrees staff, according to the open letter authored by Telecommunications Commissioner Stephen Gale. No cost-upgrades were dished out.

"We consider that 2degrees' conduct put at risk the integrity of the MBNZ programme and public trust in the results," Bass said.

The SamKnows testing for the Commerce Commission involves a sample of 3000 households, and designed to fulfil a Telecommunications Act requirement to supply consumers with useful information about their broadband choices.

2degrees did not dispute the finding.

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#2349038 6-Nov-2019 16:15

Been with both 2 degrees and samknows for ages... what I want to know is why I didn't get a free upgrade! 🙃😆

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surfisup1000

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#2349040 6-Nov-2019 16:20

Hit the MSM...

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12282889

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/117207479/2degrees-redfaced-after-commerce-commission-calls-it-out-for-cheating

Samknows is getting almost a million dollars a year.

It doesn't matter so much if 2degrees were cheating or not, because samknows has not published an ISP comparison. The data in question is up to 18 months old so no longer has any relevance. Although, it is highly embarrassing for 2degrees and shows they have no integrity so cannot be trusted. They will have to earn that back over time.

Samknows were supposed to release a report in September, but, I cannot find it.

Surely we should have expected an ISP comparison by now!

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#2349073 6-Nov-2019 18:33

Gotta be a positive for encouraging folk to host a probe

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#2349074 6-Nov-2019 18:58

It's not half a million per year - it's $900,000 per year with nothing meaningful delivered so far.

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#2349075 6-Nov-2019 19:09

nickb800: Gotta be a positive for encouraging folk to host a probe

You say that like samknows hands them out to anyone!

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deadlyllama

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#2349076 6-Nov-2019 19:21

sbiddle: It's not half a million per year - it's $900,000 per year with nothing meaningful delivered so far.

I miss TrueNet. I miss actual, frequent reporting on broadband performance. I miss having hard data to base my ISP choice on.

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#2349096 6-Nov-2019 21:13

hio77:
nickb800: Gotta be a positive for encouraging folk to host a probe

You say that like samknows hands them out to anyone!

They gave me one.... So the bar is pretty low.

hio77

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#2349098 6-Nov-2019 21:17

BarTender:
hio77:
nickb800: Gotta be a positive for encouraging folk to host a probe

You say that like samknows hands them out to anyone!

They gave me one.... So the bar is pretty low.

They didn't like me.. I offered 3 different service providers for options!

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tehgerbil

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#2349246 7-Nov-2019 09:20

Well, I think the era of Snap is well and truly over. I cannot ever see them, or their Engineers willfully engaging in this appalling behavior.

michaelmurfy

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#2349264 7-Nov-2019 09:50

tehgerbil:

Well, I think the era of Snap is well and truly over. I cannot ever see them, or their Engineers willfully engaging in this appalling behavior.

I don't think all the statements on that article are necessary true.

Both Snap and now 2degrees have always reached out to customers with slow sync on their lines and offered assistance to bring it up to speed. They've also called customers to move them onto better plans either cheaper or more suited to their needs or calling customers informing them about UFB and moving them onto it.

I know this because I was one of those customers who got called up in the Snap days. I know others (without probes) who have been called with 2degrees also. Whilst they did call up their customers who had poor performing lines and probes doesn't make those customers any more special than any of their other customers - yes, they found the customers with the probes and tried improving their internet but they do this with other customers regardless also.

The customers who were moved to faster plans at no additional cost could well be customers who were on xDSL who got offered UFB for example. We just don't know the full story around this.

Remember, newspapers like to stir crap with big companies. We've all seen rubbish in the media about Spark, Vodafone etc etc. So take these sorts of statement with a grain of rice. We all know other ISP's do this sort of thing with their customers regardless on if they've got a probe or not. I can also bet some of these other ISP's have attempted to look out for probes to improve internet quality for these customers also and can also bet they'll all deny doing it now.

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sidefx

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#2349265 7-Nov-2019 09:50

tehgerbil:

Well, I think the era of Snap is well and truly over. I cannot ever see them, or their Engineers willfully engaging in this appalling behavior.

Not sure about that. Granted this is pretty bad and I'm not trying to defend it in any way.

On the other hand I've been with snap then 2 degrees for a very long time and they have always been extremely good at providing an excellent product, decent prices (and they never seem to forget about existing customers like some other providers) and good support. Not to mention they are still one of the best at engaging with the community on these forums. This has definitely put a dent in my opinion of 2 degrees but I'll be sticking with them...

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#2349329 7-Nov-2019 10:51

michaelmurfy:

Remember, newspapers like to stir crap with big companies. We've all seen rubbish in the media about Spark, Vodafone etc etc. So take these sorts of statement with a grain of rice. We all know other ISP's do this sort of thing with their customers regardless on if they've got a probe or not. I can also bet some of these other ISP's have attempted to look out for probes to improve internet quality for these customers also and can also bet they'll all deny doing it now.

I'm not so sure about this. @cbrpilot from Spark has categorically denied it and I believe him as I was part of exactly this discussion when I was at Spark. When I was there the engineers all jointly agreed that if any technical efforts were made to find the Truenet probes (which we all agreed had terrible testing methodology) or the Samknows probes (which seemed promising at the time) then it would completely invalidate the test results and was just dishonest approach to our customers. All of the effort we put in to optimise the broadband experience especially DSL customers were made across the board irrespective of if you had a probe or not.

2D have admitted and apologised to the fact that engineers created a list of probes they deliberately detected and made efforts to explicitly improve the performance of those connections means the intent of their action isn't up for discussion.

Did other ISPs do it? perhaps... but I know Spark didn't.

Did I make it easier for 2D or others to find the probes by posting my analysis of the traffic it creates earlier in this thread? Quite possibly and had I thought it would be used that way I wouldn't have posted it.

Do 2D or other ISPs proactively contact customers with poor connections / incorrect plans. Yes I know they do, but how often and do they have a team dedicated to looking into the bottom 1% and offering them free Master Filter installs for DSL or moving them to Fibre sure, but that isn't what happened is it?

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