Minimum box requirements from Chorus

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#963972 9-Jan-2014 16:20

It is true my box doesn't meet those minimum size requirements but the ONT is the only thing that needs to go in this box. 350x700 seems like a very large box for just the ONT. Although I have never actually seen one so maybe it's bigger than I thought. The box I made I drilled some 20mm holes in the sides for ventilation. I was planning on making a glass panel in the front to see any lights that may be interesting.

My RF patching is going to be in the ceiling (at point P), the network patching (48 port patch panel + 24 port managed switch) is in a cupboard in the middle of the house (P). The alarm panel is located in another cupboard.
I have included the outline to show why there is no point patching from where the fibre (F) comes in. The living areas are at the bottom of the image, bedrooms in the middle, garage at the top.

I think I have to give up and just install the ridiculous sized box (and thus remove insulation from the south facing wall) otherwise there is no way they will install. Wife is concerned they'll stop coming and we'll never get internet.

BMarquis

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Chorus

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#963980 9-Jan-2014 16:45

I just grabbed the details from the ONT Product Manual for you :)

The ONT must have a minimum of 50mm clearance around the sides, and 100mm clearance on top.
Must not be stacked with any other devices on top of the ONT, and should not have any heat sources below it.

The ONT measures 13cm high, 17.2cm wide and 3.3cm deep.
(note, you'll need come clearance for cables!)

As others have mentioned, they get pretty warm, so the more space and air flow it gets, the better.

Jase2985

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#963987 9-Jan-2014 17:10

BMarquis: I just grabbed the details from the ONT Product Manual for you :)

The ONT must have a minimum of 50mm clearance around the sides, and 100mm clearance on top.
Must not be stacked with any other devices on top of the ONT, and should not have any heat sources below it.

i find that rather ironic given the picture chorus provide on page 2 of the PDF swanny linked to.

The ONT is stacked and its less than 100mm from the top of the box.

Way to give out conflicting information.

Also that information that you provided above should be in that PDF from chorus.

Swanny

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Master Geek
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#963989 9-Jan-2014 17:13

Seems like the picture in the PDF where the gateway is mounted in front of the ONT might not be right either. My current router gets quite warm (in the hot water cupboard :))

Thanks, BMarquis:

So, if I had a box 280mm inside square then it should be big enough to meet the ONT requirements. Pitty I gave my drop/table saw to a friend to store while we're homeless!

RunningMan

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#963993 9-Jan-2014 17:29

InstallerUFB:
Not that I would slag off a install tech from another installation company - but there are no requirements as far as Im aware that would require the Chorus ONT to be installed in a box of any type.

The requirements that I are aware of are that they are not installed - externaly (on the outside or under the floor), horizontely, upside down or or on their side (when vertical) (the last 3 because the heatsinking and venting is designed to work most effectivly in the correct vertical position only) and to avoid is possible areas which can get damp (Launderys, bathrooms and kitchens)

And as has been said serveral times on these forums, even though it is recommended that the ONT is installed by the TV or at a point near to the most internet use, in the end it is up to the installer to put the ONT were the end user wants it (within the guidelines above)

And yes there should be at least two Cat+ cables running back to your existing distribution panel so that both data and voice (from ATA ports if required) can be taken from the ONT back to the panel for redistribution

I think this is the key here.

The box dimensions that they are referring to would be to contain the complete structured cabling patch panel, router, switch and other associated gear. This is not the case for your installation, as your primary patch panel is elsewhere. If the installer you have dealt with will not budge, perhaps try contacting their supervisor, and see where you get.

BMarquis

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Chorus

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#963999 9-Jan-2014 17:31

Jase2985:

i find that rather ironic given the picture chorus provide on page 2 of the PDF swanny linked to.

The ONT is stacked and its less than 100mm from the top of the box.

Way to give out conflicting information.

Also that information that you provided above should be in that PDF from chorus.

Fair comments.
The PDF Swanny linked to shows the old ONT from the fibre subdivisions pre-UFB. not the UFB ONT. You have to have a keen eye and product knowledge to pick that up though!
Let me chase it up tomorrow, there may be an updated version, or perhaps we need to update it! :)

All the installers (should) have the installation requirements. I don't see any reason why they couldn't also be in public facing documents.

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Jase2985

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#964032 9-Jan-2014 18:37

BMarquis: regardless, it makes it a little difficult for those trying to do things themselves to have their house how they want it, and to have conflicting info out there, and also missing info. I do understand where you are coming from. its hard to remember what documents you need to update when one thing changes.

Only reason i picked it up, is because i will be in a similar position when we renovate down the line. Im unsure where the ETP would be but the home network side of things wont be near an outside wall, and im also going to consider what works if we were to move for the future owners. the garage out the front is the easiest place for the ETP but not ideal for home networks.

Swannys box need to be big enough for the ONT and thats it, it doesn't need to meet the dimensions outlined in the chorus PDF, that's for a complete fitted star box with everything in it. if the ONT fits within its requirements whats the issue? his choice to have the star wiring box else where. from what ive read there is no requirement to have them in the same place.

its just frustrating the installer telling him something which doesn't seem to be correct

BMarquis

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Chorus

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#964069 9-Jan-2014 19:28

Jase2985: BMarquis: regardless, it makes it a little difficult for those trying to do things themselves to have their house how they want it, and to have conflicting info out there, and also missing info. I do understand where you are coming from. its hard to remember what documents you need to update when one thing changes.

Only reason i picked it up, is because i will be in a similar position when we renovate down the line. Im unsure where the ETP would be but the home network side of things wont be near an outside wall, and im also going to consider what works if we were to move for the future owners. the garage out the front is the easiest place for the ETP but not ideal for home networks.

Swannys box need to be big enough for the ONT and thats it, it doesn't need to meet the dimensions outlined in the chorus PDF, that's for a complete fitted star box with everything in it. if the ONT fits within its requirements whats the issue? his choice to have the star wiring box else where. from what ive read there is no requirement to have them in the same place.

its just frustrating the installer telling him something which doesn't seem to be correct

Correct, Swanny doesn't need the full box as per the star wiring box guideline PDF.

I'll chat with the guys that create and manage this documentation, it could be the simple case of a link being provided to the wrong document. As mentioned, I don't see why the info I provided here couldn't be in customer facing docs, so perhaps it is... Somewhere ;)
I look after the access network, so I know what the equipment needs, but I don't intimately know the guideline docs that Chorus have published for end users.

There is definitely no need for the ONT to be in the same place as the patch panel or RGW, etc.

If we don't have all the right documentation out there for end users in the position of yourself and Swanny, I'm keen to make sure we do.
If we do already have it, I'll get some links posted here.

More to follow, I'm here to help and make sure everyone has the correct info... not to provide conflicting or confusing info!

Cheers,
Brent

BMarquis

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Chorus

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#964071 9-Jan-2014 19:32

Jase2985: its just frustrating the installer telling him something which doesn't seem to be correct

This is something slightly different to what I was writing above, hence a separate post...
Yep, this is frustrating. As the UFBInstaller guys said the installer has provided incorrect information in this case. I'll PM Swanny to get some more information so I can follow this up.

This is definitely the case of an individual installer not quite being right, it's not that Chorus' documentation to installers, etc is forcing some crazy comms box/cabinet requirement :)

Jase2985

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#964087 9-Jan-2014 19:42

Brent, Thanks very much for the constructive answers to the questions and pushing the issues further

Its very muchly appreciated

Jason

InstallerUFB

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#964100 9-Jan-2014 20:06

BMarquis:
Jase2985: its just frustrating the installer telling him something which doesn't seem to be correct

This is something slightly different to what I was writing above, hence a separate post...
Yep, this is frustrating. As the UFBInstaller guys said the installer has provided incorrect information in this case. I'll PM Swanny to get some more information so I can follow this up.

This is definitely the case of an individual installer not quite being right, it's not that Chorus' documentation to installers, etc is forcing some crazy comms box/cabinet requirement :)

From when Swanny first asked the question about what size box 'was' required - I have gone through every document issued to Installers, on how to build up the UFB network from the Exchanges and ending in the connecting up of the RSPs Gateways (including previous issues that we have archived for reference) and I can find nothing in any of them about why the ONT 'has' to be installed in a box.

I have done many installs with the ONT mounted on the wall of the garage etc and then patched through to the Gateway in another location (in and out of a star wireing network box)

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Swanny

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Master Geek
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#964215 9-Jan-2014 23:48

I gave in as my wife picked up a "star" wiring box on the way home (got charged full price too damn it).

Hopefully this suits the installer's requirements:

As you can see I have mounted it out from the wall using some battons and I've managed to squash the insulation in behind it.

I was planning to put shelves in this part of the garage. I guess I'll just have to make a removable shelf to go across in front of the box.

chevrolux

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#965096 11-Jan-2014 13:36

That is just absolutely ridiculous. If the installer has required this I would make a big song and dance about Chorus paying for that new box.
It's worrying there are people like this installer going around imposing their own set of requirements on home owners.
A line my boss says often comes to mind.... 'He needs to be shot with a ball of his own sh1t'

Shock

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#965722 12-Jan-2014 21:16

We recently had UFB (Snap) installed and we had a very grumpy Chorus tech who was going on about how we were a 'greenfield' install and should have one of the above mentioned boxes in our garage. I had to explain that our comms cupboard is setup in the house in one of the rooms and that is where we require the ONT to be placed.

The garage is also a damp environment with our dryer venting into the space. I also asked how me requiring the ONT in a place other than my garage differed from an install in an older style house where the ETP was nowhere near the garage or there was no garage at all. Didn't get an answer to that :) There were also comments about the heat in the cupboard as he was installing the ONT, again irrelevant as my NAS, switch, server, UPS & other modem have been in there since we moved in with no issue.

This was all in contrast to the Chorus guys who came round before the install day and check everything out. They said where we wanted it was all fine and that the hybrid fibre cable from the ETP to our comms cabinet was needed to be pulled into the roof and along to where the ONT was to be installed. Thats how it was done in the end but the resistance was not necessary and a second tech eventually came round and did the roof work. I speculate the first guy was reluctant to go into roof spaces.

Odd comment from the install tech was that they were retaining the copper network as backup for emergencies hence they were not taking it out from the ETP. Interesting.

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Swanny

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Master Geek
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#965788 12-Jan-2014 23:02

The more we discussed the more I realised the same in that that I probably should have put the ONT into the cupboard in the middle of the house. There isn't a star wiring box in there though so it would have just moved my particular problem :)

Apparently Chorus are booked for Thursday this week. Cutting it fine as my current house is sold the next day so I'll have to give that one the chop on Friday.

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