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106 posts

Master Geek
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# 138410 3-Jan-2014 10:20
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Howdy,

I am having issues with getting everything in order for fibre at my new build.  I have my own patch panel and gigabit switch in a cupboard in the middle of the house.  The router (Fritzbox from Snap) will go there also.

At the far end of the house, on the far wall of the garage is where all the services come in.  This is where i have a single (yes, probabaly should have put a double) cat6 wall plate and a power outlet.  The Transfield techs are insistent that I install a Star wiring box in my garage wall just for them to put the ONT into, quoting Chrorus regs.  I made a box around 400mm square and attached it to the wall but the tech called me and says that it's not big enough.  I don't want to install a star wiring box since that is a big hole in the wall and I will have to remove a big chunk of insulation from the wall (south facing too) to flush mount it.

I know this is classed as a new build but it's built now (I went on and on about it to the building company during the build and they did nothing, except put the usual pipes in the foundation, which it turns out are useless).  Location is Selwyn district, near Christchurch.

So, the question - What is the minimum size this box needs to be?

Cheers,
Swanny

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4006 posts

Uber Geek
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  # 960573 3-Jan-2014 10:26
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That sounds a bit bullocks.
ONT's can go anywhere there is power. No need for them to be enclosed. if anything it would be detrimental as they get a little warm.
You have done the right thing putting in a power and data outlet. I think this tech just has a carrot up his a5s about ONT placement.

InstallerUFB will hopefully be able to chime in and let us know what the deal is.

5440 posts

Uber Geek
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  # 960574 3-Jan-2014 10:28
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You already have star wiring back to your patch panel. What can't they just install the ONT in the garage beside that single outlet - or possibly even run the fibre to your existing star wiring patch panel and put the ONT there?

 
 
 
 


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  # 960628 3-Jan-2014 12:14
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Happy to take a photo of the Chorus lab environment in stout st that has 18 ONTs stacked side by side with two fans blowing on them. Proof they can run in a very warm environment.

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Ultimate Geek
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  # 960909 3-Jan-2014 19:25
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chevrolux: That sounds a bit bullocks.
ONT's can go anywhere there is power. No need for them to be enclosed. if anything it would be detrimental as they get a little warm.
You have done the right thing putting in a power and data outlet. I think this tech just has a carrot up his a5s about ONT placement.

InstallerUFB will hopefully be able to chime in and let us know what the deal is.



Not that I would slag off a install tech from another installation company  - but there are no requirements as far as Im aware that would require the Chorus ONT to be installed in a box of any type.

The requirements that I are aware of are that they are not installed - externaly (on the outside or under the floor), horizontely, upside down or or on their side (when vertical) (the last 3 because the heatsinking and venting is designed to work most effectivly in the correct vertical position only) and to avoid is possible areas which can get damp (Launderys, bathrooms and kitchens)

And as has been said serveral times on these forums, even though it is recommended that the ONT is installed by the TV or at a point near to the most internet use, in the end it is up to the installer to put the ONT were the end user wants it (within the guidelines above)


And yes there should be at least two Cat+ cables running back to your existing distribution panel so that both data and voice (from ATA ports if required) can be taken from the ONT back to the panel for redistribution



106 posts

Master Geek
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  # 961801 6-Jan-2014 11:33
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InstallerUFB:
...
And yes there should be at least two Cat+ cables running back to your existing distribution panel so that both data and voice (from ATA ports if required) can be taken from the ONT back to the panel for redistribution


So I need two cables from the ONT to the router?  I thought the router was the one that did the VOIP phone stuff.

Am thinking I will have to just install the stupid massive star wiring box since I am at the whim of the installer and they have already had to make a couple of trips (I had to put a conduit through the wall and make holes in the gib to get it to the right place on the inside).

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  # 961834 6-Jan-2014 12:31
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Yes on Snap the Fritz does voip over your internet connection. Don't know of any ISP doing voice via the other ports on the ONT currently (for various reasons).

Installer sounds like a knob, there has to be flexibility in retrofitting ufb to existing homes... perhaps contact Snap and request a different installer if possible.



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Ultimate Geek
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  # 961991 6-Jan-2014 16:40
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Some ISP's do offer voice from the ONT via the ATA ports e.g. trustpower so it is extremely likely that any installer will push for it to be placed where there is access to 2x cat5+ leads to the patch panel (where applicable) as if the ISP ever changes and this is required the ONT install will either have to be redone or more cabling run.




Disclaimer: Comments I make are NOT on behalf of my employer, these comments are mine and mine alone.

 
 
 
 




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Master Geek
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  # 962510 7-Jan-2014 15:28
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I can run more Cat 6 from the patch panel to that point (and will probably run a DC cable so that I can build some kind of UPS solution in the future) but I hope I can get away with just a single run in the meantime.  I have a whole house to move into storage (new house is late) so I just don't have time right now.

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  # 962630 7-Jan-2014 18:44
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InstallerUFB: 

And yes there should be at least two Cat+ cables running back to your existing distribution panel so that both data and voice (from ATA ports if required) can be taken from the ONT back to the panel for redistribution



The ONT voice stuff is a waste of time, number of residential ISP's using the ONT voice port instead of voip via their own gateway/router/ata ... zero.

Swanny: I can run more Cat 6 from the patch panel to that point (and will probably run a DC cable so that I can build some kind of UPS solution in the future) but I hope I can get away with just a single run in the meantime.  I have a whole house to move into storage (new house is late) so I just don't have time right now.


Sounds like you may need to run a 2nd cable to appease the installer. Should be a pretty quick job if you have existing cable there might be able to use the existing cable to pull through 2 if it's not affixed.



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  # 962633 7-Jan-2014 18:48
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matt45: Some ISP's do offer voice from the ONT via the ATA ports e.g. trustpower so it is extremely likely that any installer will push for it to be placed where there is access to 2x cat5+ leads to the patch panel (where applicable) as if the ISP ever changes and this is required the ONT install will either have to be redone or more cabling run.


First ISP I've heard of actually using it.

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  # 962893 8-Jan-2014 00:23
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You point to where you want the ONT and thats as far as that tech should be concerned.. If you want it there and have sufficient wiring to your RGW thats your own problem and not his.

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Chorus

  # 963358 8-Jan-2014 16:32
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TimA: You point to where you want the ONT and thats as far as that tech should be concerned.. If you want it there and have sufficient wiring to your RGW thats your own problem and not his.


That is not entirely true.
The ONT also has some environmental requirements for clearances, venting, temperature etc.

As the ONT is owned by the LFC (I can only speak for the Chorus ONT), it needs to be installed in an environment where the installation conditions are met...  If it breaks, it is covered by a 'warranty' but only if installed as per the manufacturers specification....

Installers have been given the environmental and installation requirements, they should be following these.

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  # 963366 8-Jan-2014 16:47
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Sounds like you should post a photo of where its to be installed, but if its in a safe, dry corner of your garage then it can just be surfaced mounted on the wall. I have been involvoed in literally dozens of school UFB installs and the ONT goes in all manner of places and if the fibre drop has occured before we SNUP the school then we simply provide 2x Cat6 runs to the core cabinet if in the same building, alternatively the 2x Cat6 go to the edge cabinet in the building the drop is in and a VLAN provided to pipe the WAN to the Core cabinet and associated Router and L3 Switch. Sometimes the Fibre drop ends up in all manner of odd ball places but I have never had the Chorus tech upset about it, normally they are just pleased they dont need to run furhter OS1 to the Core Cab.

Cyril



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Master Geek
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  # 963833 9-Jan-2014 12:50
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These are the requirements that I have been given:
http://www.chorus.co.nz/file/18484/minimum_communication_cabling_requirements.pdf

Not sure if they are going to inspect the rest of my wiring to see if I have the required number of RF jacks too...

This is the only photo I have on hand right now:


I built the box after they told me that it can't be mounted to the wall.  Box is approx 200x300 inside.  You can see the fibre conduit enters at lower right of this box.

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Master Geek
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Chorus

  # 963911 9-Jan-2014 14:57
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Swanny: These are the requirements that I have been given:
http://www.chorus.co.nz/file/18484/minimum_communication_cabling_requirements.pdf


yes, and these parts are particularly applicable:

 

Star wiring box minimum dimensions must be

 

350mm (W) x 700mm (H) x 80mm (D).

 


Special note: The door on the star wiring box

 

must have louvers so air can circulate to keep the

 

equipment cool

Swanny:

This is the only photo I have on hand right now:


I built the box after they told me that it can't be mounted to the wall.  Box is approx 200x300 inside.  You can see the fibre conduit enters at lower right of this box.


The box looks and sounds too small to me, but the photo's aren't the best...

The ONT can be mounted on a wall, it does not need to be in a star wiring box.

Perhaps the installer was worried about placement of the ONT, were you going to have it at a low (kick or tool damage able), car door height or something?`
if it is in a reasonably secluded spot away from possible damage and animals, then surface wall mounted is A-OK.



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