Chorus 10Gbps Future

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636 posts

Ultimate Geek

#1819600 11-Jul-2017 14:40

10Gbps RJ45 nics are available now for less than $100usd. Top of the range motherboards are coming with 10G ports, There are some routers with 10G ports. My server at home got a 10G upgrade last year for less than $500nzd (switch, nic, sfp's). Why wait? get on with it now.

All those on adsl/vdsl why grumble about it when you know it will arrive soon enough and when it does surely the more speed options the better?

Azzura

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#1819603 11-Jul-2017 14:46

xpd:

And meanwhile, a geek sits on VDSL awaiting even 30/10 fiber ;)

You're not alone my fellow geek! This geek sits waiting...and waiting and waiting on ADSL2+...

Please someone just take my money!!!!

Wiggum

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#1819610 11-Jul-2017 15:04

richms:

I want it just so I can post speed test screenshots to aussies ;)

You do realize that 10GBps will probably have 0 affect on latency compared to other fiber plans?

Sure you will be able to download more data faster, but chances are latency will not be improved at all. Light still travels the same speed through fibre on 100Mbps, 200Mbps, 1Gbps and 10Gbps plans.

I'm currently on a 200Mbps plan, and have the option of paying a little more for 1GBps, I just don't see the point as when I trialed it, latency was exactly the same.

DonGould

3892 posts

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#1819614 11-Jul-2017 15:16

Wiggum: I'm currently on a 200Mbps plan, and have the option of paying a little more for 1GBps, I just don't see the point as when I trialed it, latency was exactly the same.

The issue is congestion and the cost of OLTs.

An OLT with a 40G or 100G interface to the switching matrix just doesn't cost that much more than one with a 10G interface.

2.5G v's 10G PON, that price is coming down.

How do I know this? I know because it's been the case now for decades.

The carrier for your 200mbit service is still only 2.5G in the existing network. In a 10G network it's higher, so more people will be able to actually use their 200mbit services without getting congestion.

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DarkShadow

1647 posts

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#1819623 11-Jul-2017 15:22

Wiggum:

richms:

I want it just so I can post speed test screenshots to aussies ;)

You do realize that 10GBps will probably have 0 affect on latency compared to other fiber plans?

Sure you will be able to download more data faster, but chances are latency will not be improved at all. Light still travels the same speed through fibre on 100Mbps, 200Mbps, 1Gbps and 10Gbps plans.

I'm currently on a 200Mbps plan, and have the option of paying a little more for 1GBps, I just don't see the point as when I trialed it, latency was exactly the same.

You misunderstood him.

He wants speedtest results so he can use it to taunt the Aussies. They elected a government who scrapped their fibre rollout and they will probably be still on VDSL while we get 10gig.

SaltyNZ

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2degrees

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#1819624 11-Jul-2017 15:24

browned:

All those on adsl/vdsl why grumble about it when you know it will arrive soon enough and when it does surely the more speed options the better?

10G isn't going to arrive 'soon enough' here. It's going to arrive 'never' here. That's why I'm grumbling.

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These comments are my own and do not represent the opinions of 2degrees.

Wiggum

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#1819629 11-Jul-2017 15:29

DonGould:

Wiggum: I'm currently on a 200Mbps plan, and have the option of paying a little more for 1GBps, I just don't see the point as when I trialed it, latency was exactly the same.

The issue is congestion and the cost of OLTs.

An OLT with a 40G or 100G interface to the switching matrix just doesn't cost that much more than one with a 10G interface.

2.5G v's 10G PON, that price is coming down.

How do I know this? I know because it's been the case now for decades.

The carrier for your 200mbit service is still only 2.5G in the existing network. In a 10G network it's higher, so more people will be able to actually use their 200mbit services without getting congestion.

True, but my point is that even once all that has been upgraded, unless you suffering from congestion, 10Gbps is going to do 0 for your latency.

NZ suffers from bad latency because of our geography and distance from the rest of the world, nothing really we can do about that unless maybe putting fiber through the center of the earth to Europe. People in Australia/Europe/the US will always be mostly better off than us simply because of where the content is located.

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Wiggum

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#1819631 11-Jul-2017 15:35

DarkShadow:

You misunderstood him.

He wants speedtest results so he can use it to taunt the Aussies. They elected a government who scrapped their fibre rollout and they will probably be still on VDSL while we get 10gig.

fibre is not the only medium 10gbps can flow through. Most people seem to not understand this.

- 10Gbps over a copper telephone line

- 10Gbps over cable (We already have 1Gbps over the old telstra clear cable network - fibrex)

Just because the Aussies scrapped fibre, it does not mean they scrapped getting 10Gbps broadband. Things change, technology changes, and who really cares what is carrying the traffic. We all really just want it to be fast.

richms

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#1819633 11-Jul-2017 15:37

Latency only matters with loading crappy content. dash and http2 go a long way to making latency more of a who cares thing for content. Same for local CDNs.

Physics cant fix gaming with people on the other side of the world in its current form, but higher speeds are always a good thing.

Saying you cant see a use for things like this is just your opinion of it. I am sure people said the same luddite talk when the idea of an "always on" connection replaced dial up, when the first VDSL came out to replace ADSL, and when the 200 meg plans got bumped to a gig (I'm sure of that one since I read it here) so meh! to your negativity of the upgrade. Bring it on chorus.

Richard rich.ms

richms

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#1819637 11-Jul-2017 15:43

Wiggum:

fibre is not the only medium 10gbps can flow through. Most people seem to not understand this.

- 10Gbps over a copper telephone line

Lab conditions, not far enough to even get from the property boundary to my closet. A pointless novelty at that range.

Wiggum:

- 10Gbps over cable (We already have 1Gbps over the old telstra clear cable network - fibrex)

100 or 200m of coax, again, only going to happen with building the fiber 95% of the way to the house.

Wiggum:

Just because the Aussies scrapped fibre, it does not mean they scrapped getting 10Gbps broadband. Things change, technology changes, and who really cares what is carrying the traffic. We all really just want it to be fast.

They have scrapped even getting 100 meg for a majority of people, and their charging methods mean that for ISPs to get enough backhaul from the cabinets there is no way that people will pay for the NBN over copper plans.

All these copper and coax hybrid networks involve putting a crapload of active equipment out in the street, where it needs to be housed, powered, serviced etc. I don't think you will find anyone that thinks is is an alternate to fiber to the building, except for stupid aussie politicians that will never admit they were wrong because of egg on the face.

Richard rich.ms

Wiggum

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#1819642 11-Jul-2017 15:53

richms:

Lab conditions, not far enough to even get from the property boundary to my closet. A pointless novelty at that range.

Yes its short lengths still. But there will be ways around this quiet soon. Technology is always advancing.

https://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/05/10/dsl_inventors_latest_science_project_terabit_speeds_over_copper/

richms:

100 or 200m of coax, again, only going to happen with building the fiber 95% of the way to the house.

Like copper, the speeds over coax will always improve.

I guess what I am trying to say is that you have a very narrow way of thinking if you are suggesting fibre is the only solution. its not.

hio77

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Lizard Networks

#1819692 11-Jul-2017 17:09

Wiggum:

Like copper, the speeds over coax will always improve.

I guess what I am trying to say is that you have a very narrow way of thinking if you are suggesting fibre is the only solution. its not.

coax is a copper product.

The idea that copper will get better is narrow thinking really..

Copper sure has a tone of R&D going into it to work past issues with what it can supply however, most of these all have the same things in-common - They ploy on the use of the higher frequencies which get lost over distance.

copper is an analogue signal in it's essence, you can only cram so many bits into that.

digital signals however, you can look at things like high density modulation.

While a copper signal can degrade and slowly fail, a digital signal will fail or work. there is no in-between which quite honestly massive proportions of the population are affected by - be it a marginal copper fault, low grade copper in the area, crosstalk or whatever..

Don't get me wrong, i'm a lover of VDSL, G.INP etc there are products out there that can still bring gains to all connections.... when that requires new hardware though, you may aswell replace all the in-between and futureproof!

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noroad

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#1819729 11-Jul-2017 17:45

xpd:

And meanwhile, a geek sits on VDSL awaiting even 30/10 fiber ;)

Don't complain about your VDSL! some of us have to combine adsl lines to get anything approachable respectable speed! *sigh** roll on July 2018!

Wiggum

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#1819869 11-Jul-2017 20:33

hio77:

The idea that copper will get better is narrow thinking really..

Copper sure has a tone of R&D going into it to work past issues with what it can supply however, most of these all have the same things in-common - They ploy on the use of the higher frequencies which get lost over distance.

copper is an analogue signal in it's essence, you can only cram so many bits into that.

digital signals however, you can look at things like high density modulation.

While a copper signal can degrade and slowly fail, a digital signal will fail or work. there is no in-between which quite honestly massive proportions of the population are affected by - be it a marginal copper fault, low grade copper in the area, crosstalk or whatever..

Copper is getting better all the time. 10Gbps is quiet a considerable difference to the max speeds of adsl/vdsl 5 years ago.

VDSL is a digital signal over copper (Very-high-bit-rate digital subscriber line). No longer an analogue signal, its all very digital these days.

G.fast proves your theory is incorrect. (Already in use by Swisscom in Switzerland). And XG-fast has already been through some trials in Australia. If there is fibre to the curb, there is no need to have it to your door if there is copper. In another few years, there will be even newer technology.

richms

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#1819876 11-Jul-2017 20:38

There is no such thing as a digital signal, its all analog representations of digital signals. While technology will get better at being able to put more data onto a cable, and better at reconstructing the data from what gets to the other end, the light in glass will always be more efficient, lower latency and over time cost less than putting fiber to copper transcievers outside every house just to push signal a few 100m thru the existing cable.

Richard rich.ms

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