Changes to DLM Incoming

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'That VDSL Cat'
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#1790971 29-May-2017 10:39

dclegg:

The day after Chorus started installing fibre into our street, my VDSL modem resynched with these stats (previously 46Mbps/8Mbps). My current working theory is that it's becoming increasingly nervous about its ongoing role in our household, and is trying a last ditch attempt to prove to us that it can still be useful :-)

Looks like you have actually just moved to 6dB, lower snr = higher speed.

Those tweaking their snr and noticing an interleaving increase, this is to be expected. Interleavings is a method of reducing errors.

ddDLM Does appear to favor speed over interleavings with these changes.

There was mention of interleavings possibly being switchable on VDSL with the new changes, although this has not been confirmed. Is implied by the official documents released.

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#1790975 29-May-2017 10:44

hio77:

Looks like you have actually just moved to 6dB, lower snr = higher speed.

So you're saying that my VDSL modem hasn't reached sentience, and isn't doing this as a jealousy inspired last ditch attempt to secure its place in our house? That's probably a good thing, as I shudder to think what it may do to me in my sleep when it's finally kicked to the curb.

(really hope it's not listening in on this conversation. Just in case).

hio77

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#1790979 29-May-2017 10:46

dclegg:

hio77:

Looks like you have actually just moved to 6dB, lower snr = higher speed.

So you're saying that my VDSL modem hasn't reached sentience, and isn't doing this as a jealousy inspired last ditch attempt to secure its place in our house? That's probably a good thing, as I shudder to think what it may do to me in my sleep when it's finally kicked to the curb.

(really hope it's not listening in on this conversation. Just in case).

Nope, ddDLM is just working as it is meant to :)

whos to say ddDLM won't decide that your line is unstable at 6dB and it should pull back!

Fibre is rolling, get onto it i'd say!

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#1790983 29-May-2017 10:51

hio77:

Fibre is rolling, get onto it i'd say!

Yeah, we'll be switching as soon as it's available. Current ETA is December 2017, but I do have a shiny new piece of fibre sticking out near the letterbox now. Hoping that this ETA is a conservative estimate.

That being said, our VDSL has been rock solid ever since Chorus finally fixed an ongoing (but as it turns out very obvious) line fault that took over 7 tech visits to spot and resolve. Having this latest speed bump is a nice little bonus.

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#1790985 29-May-2017 10:54

hio77:

dclegg:

The day after Chorus started installing fibre into our street, my VDSL modem resynched with these stats (previously 46Mbps/8Mbps). My current working theory is that it's becoming increasingly nervous about its ongoing role in our household, and is trying a last ditch attempt to prove to us that it can still be useful :-)

Looks like you have actually just moved to 6dB, lower snr = higher speed.

Those tweaking their snr and noticing an interleaving increase, this is to be expected. Interleavings is a method of reducing errors.

ddDLM Does appear to favor speed over interleavings with these changes.

There was mention of interleavings possibly being switchable on VDSL with the new changes, although this has not been confirmed. Is implied by the official documents released.

I noticed when tweaking my SNR back to a stable setting that interleaving kicked in more (7ms to 8ms). So have left it on performance (7ms)

Do love the extra speed but that latency is making me sad

hio77

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#1790986 29-May-2017 10:55

dclegg:

Yeah, we'll be switching as soon as it's available. Current ETA is December 2017, but I do have a shiny new piece of fibre sticking out near the letterbox now. Hoping that this ETA is a conservative estimate.

That being said, our VDSL has been rock solid ever since Chorus finally fixed an ongoing (but as it turns out very obvious) line fault that took over 7 tech visits to spot and resolve. Having this latest speed bump is a nice little bonus.

Yep, the sad fact is chorus can often take a few attempts to resolve a fault.

end of the day is with copper, its kinda a guess game.

Once the copper is in pristine working condition though, absoutely 6dB 0ms is totally do able.

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dclegg

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#1790994 29-May-2017 11:05

hio77:

Yep, the sad fact is chorus can often take a few attempts to resolve a fault.

end of the day is with copper, its kinda a guess game.

Once the copper is in pristine working condition though, absoutely 6dB 0ms is totally do able.

This particular fault had a Chorus technician sent out once a week for nearly two months. I had my master filter replaced twice, and was twice charged a No Fault Fee of $200 by my ISP (later reversed).

When the final Chorus tech turned up, his first step was to plug a diagnostic piece of equipment into the line outside and found the fault immediately. He gave me the headpiece he was using to hear the noise on the line caused by the fault, and it was pretty obvious. He was absolutely flabbergasted as to how the fault wasn't picked up by the first tech, as he said it was both very obvious and simple to resolve.

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#1791000 29-May-2017 11:10

dclegg:

This particular fault had a Chorus technician sent out once a week for nearly two months. I had my master filter replaced twice, and was twice charged a No Fault Fee of $200 by my ISP (later reversed).

When the final Chorus tech turned up, his first step was to plug a diagnostic piece of equipment into the line outside and found the fault immediately. He gave me the headpiece he was using to hear the noise on the line caused by the fault, and it was pretty obvious. He was absolutely flabbergasted as to how the fault wasn't picked up by the first tech, as he said it was both very obvious and simple to resolve.

Those fees are total BS. If its running slow or not working there is clearly a fault. Its a "we cant be bothered to fix our copper so here is a $200 charge" fee, not no fault found.

If they want to charge them they should have to provide details of the connection operating fine from the demarc, which they dont, just come out clip their thing on and say its fine and leave and have the ISP send a bill.

Richard rich.ms

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#1791003 29-May-2017 11:17

richms:

dclegg:

This particular fault had a Chorus technician sent out once a week for nearly two months. I had my master filter replaced twice, and was twice charged a No Fault Fee of $200 by my ISP (later reversed).

When the final Chorus tech turned up, his first step was to plug a diagnostic piece of equipment into the line outside and found the fault immediately. He gave me the headpiece he was using to hear the noise on the line caused by the fault, and it was pretty obvious. He was absolutely flabbergasted as to how the fault wasn't picked up by the first tech, as he said it was both very obvious and simple to resolve.

Those fees are total BS. If its running slow or not working there is clearly a fault. Its a "we cant be bothered to fix our copper so here is a $200 charge" fee, not no fault found.

If they want to charge them they should have to provide details of the connection operating fine from the demarc, which they dont, just come out clip their thing on and say its fine and leave and have the ISP send a bill.

Interesting factor i'll throw out here is, NFF is not actually 200$, alot more. different isps devour some of the costs of it.

AFAIK, Vodafone are the cheapest, passing on $100 if i'm not mistaken. - not gospel though!

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dclegg

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#1791007 29-May-2017 11:24

hio77:

Interesting factor i'll throw out here is, NFF is not actually 200$, alot more. different isps devour some of the costs of it.

AFAIK, Vodafone are the cheapest, passing on $100 if i'm not mistaken. - not gospel though!

I'd also state that Spark were very good at refunding the NFF when I questioned it.

hio77

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#1791009 29-May-2017 11:25

Just while tweaking is on my mind and i recalled this is included:

What is the lowest level that DLM will take our ADSL and VDSL connection
noise margin to? We have set some customers to low noise levels and are
concerned they may experience poor service if diagnosis driven DLM
increases the noise margin.

A. Diagnosis driven DLM is not able to override the modem settings, so if the service
provider has locked the noise margin in the modem, diagnosis driven DLM will not
be able to change noise margin or able to fully optimise the line.

https://sp.chorus.co.nz/sites/default/files/files/diagnosis_driven_DLM_FAQs%20v2.pdf

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#1791010 29-May-2017 11:26

dclegg:

hio77:

Interesting factor i'll throw out here is, NFF is not actually 200$, alot more. different isps devour some of the costs of it.

AFAIK, Vodafone are the cheapest, passing on $100 if i'm not mistaken. - not gospel though!

I'd also state that Spark were very good at refunding the NFF when I questioned it.

Yep spark have a good process for this sort of thing.

A lot of the back-end bits are good too, Like when things such as a invalid NFF occurs there is work done around why that happened, was it a tech issue? is it something that needs feeding back etc...

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openmedia

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#1791254 29-May-2017 17:31

So my upload performance on ADSL2 has jumped up quite a bit today

Original performance

SL Type: G.992.5 annex A
Bandwidth (Up/Down) [kbps/kbps]: 728 / 17.086
Data Transferred (Sent/Received) [kB/kB]: 0,00 / 1,00
Output Power (Up/Down) [dBm]: -9,0 / 0,0
Line Attenuation (Up/Down) [dB]: 11,0 / 21,0
SN Margin (Up/Down) [dB]: 10,0 / 7,5
Vendor ID (Local/Remote): TMMB / IKNS

New stats

DSL Type: G.992.5 annex A
Bandwidth (Up/Down) [kbps/kbps]: 1.272 / 16.874
Data Transferred (Sent/Received) [kB/kB]: 0,00 / 0,00
Output Power (Up/Down) [dBm]: 10,5 / 0,0
Line Attenuation (Up/Down) [dB]: 10,5 / 20,5
SN Margin (Up/Down) [dB]: 6,0 / 7,0
Vendor ID (Local/Remote): TMMB / IKNS

Interested why I've seen output power jump from -9 to +10.5, but otherwise happy with the improvement.

Generally known online as OpenMedia, now working for Red Hat APAC as a Technology Evangelist and Portfolio Architect. Still playing with MythTV and digital media on the side.

freakngeek

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#1791282 29-May-2017 18:16

Overnight ddDLM decided I could do with a Downstream SNR lowering.
Was on 9db now on 6db, connection speed got raised by 5Mbps
But my Interleave depth is now even higher

My upstream SNR stayed at 8db, I think is too low as there are some CRC and ES errors

But more speed is always welcome, I do wonder if the Interleave depth will ever come down again.

VDSL Information: VDSL Firmware Version:05-07-09-0F-01-07
Mode:17A State:SHOWTIME TX Block:0 RX Block:0
Corrected Blocks:5 Uncorrected Blocks:0
UP Speed:8070000 Down Speed:38640000 SNR Margin:6 Loop Att.:26

Vigor> vdsl status
---------------------- ATU-R Info (hw: annex A, f/w: annex A/B/C) -----------
Running Mode : 17A State : SHOWTIME
DS Actual Rate : 38640000 bps US Actual Rate : 8070000 bps
DS Attainable Rate : 48802424 bps US Attainable Rate : 7996000 bps
DS Path Mode : Interleave US Path Mode : Interleave
DS Interleave Depth : 809 US Interleave Depth : 17
NE Current Attenuation : 26 dB Cur SNR Margin : 6 dB
DS actual PSD : 6. 1 dB US actual PSD : 14. 5 dB
NE CRC Count : 0 FE CRC Count : 5
NE ES Count : 0 FE ES Count : 5
Xdsl Reset Times : 0 Xdsl Link Times : 2
ITU Version[0] : b5004946 ITU Version[1] : 544e0000
VDSL Firmware Version : 05-07-09-0F-01-07 [with Vectoring support]
Power Management Mode : DSL_G997_PMS_L0
Test Mode : DISABLE
-------------------------------- ATU-C Info ---------------------------------
Far Current Attenuation : 28 dB Far SNR Margin : 8 dB
CO ITU Version[0] : b5004244 CO ITU Version[1] : 434da3f5
DSLAM CHIPSET VENDOR : < BDCM >

freakngeek

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#1791307 29-May-2017 18:28

Downstream SNR 1db any one ?, couldn't resist doing a quick -5db SNR tweak

Going right back to 0db tweak

Vigor> vdsl status
---------------------- ATU-R Info (hw: annex A, f/w: annex A/B/C) -----------
Running Mode : 17A State : SHOWTIME
DS Actual Rate : 44643000 bps US Actual Rate : 8020000 bps
DS Attainable Rate : 56294344 bps US Attainable Rate : 8027000 bps
DS Path Mode : Interleave US Path Mode : Interleave
DS Interleave Depth : 935 US Interleave Depth : 17
NE Current Attenuation : 26 dB Cur SNR Margin : 1 dB
DS actual PSD : 6. 1 dB US actual PSD : 14. 2 dB
NE CRC Count : 0 FE CRC Count : 5
NE ES Count : 0 FE ES Count : 5
Xdsl Reset Times : 0 Xdsl Link Times : 3
ITU Version[0] : b5004946 ITU Version[1] : 544e0000
VDSL Firmware Version : 05-07-09-0F-01-07 [with Vectoring support]
Power Management Mode : DSL_G997_PMS_L0
Test Mode : DISABLE
-------------------------------- ATU-C Info ---------------------------------
Far Current Attenuation : 28 dB Far SNR Margin : 8 dB
CO ITU Version[0] : b5004244 CO ITU Version[1] : 434da3f5
DSLAM CHIPSET VENDOR : < BDCM >

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