Fibre break responsibility?

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#2031701 7-Jun-2018 20:34

Wiggum:

Who pays? Chorus? Landlord? Fencing guy? You (the tenant)?

As your renting it may be difficult. If I was you and as the tenant I would expect the landlord to "make right". Even if it costs him money out of his own pocket. Problem is that many landlords these days are really tight, and they just refuse paying for anything. As he is your new landlord lets just hope that he is a nice guy and he wants to keep a good relationship. If he is not, then its costly time between you and him and the tenancy tribunal (That I am sure you would win, but may take months), Your relationship with landlord will take a knock. If its not too expensive it may pay to just fork out the money yourself to get the cable fixed.

My 2 cents.

I wasn't aware the work was being undertaken, so I'd like to see them try and pin the charges on me lol.

Luckily the new landlord is actually a really nice guy, apart from doing all the overdue maintenance the previous owners hadn't been doing, he brought me a box of beers to apologise for all the noise and hassle of him doing the overdue all the maintenance. He reached out to a connection he has at a certain Chorus subcontractor in my area and got my job priority bumped and the fibre cut was repaired in less than 24 hours, and when I said no huge rush as I'd already grabbed a $60 skinny cellular data pack he told me to take the cost of the data off my next rent payment. So yeah.. he's an absolute top bloke in my books lol.

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#2031702 7-Jun-2018 20:40

Lias:

Wiggum:

Who pays? Chorus? Landlord? Fencing guy? You (the tenant)?

As your renting it may be difficult. If I was you and as the tenant I would expect the landlord to "make right". Even if it costs him money out of his own pocket. Problem is that many landlords these days are really tight, and they just refuse paying for anything. As he is your new landlord lets just hope that he is a nice guy and he wants to keep a good relationship. If he is not, then its costly time between you and him and the tenancy tribunal (That I am sure you would win, but may take months), Your relationship with landlord will take a knock. If its not too expensive it may pay to just fork out the money yourself to get the cable fixed.

My 2 cents.

I wasn't aware the work was being undertaken, so I'd like to see them try and pin the charges on me lol.

Luckily the new landlord is actually a really nice guy, apart from doing all the overdue maintenance the previous owners hadn't been doing, he brought me a box of beers to apologise for all the noise and hassle of him doing the overdue all the maintenance. He reached out to a connection he has at a certain Chorus subcontractor in my area and got my job priority bumped and the fibre cut was repaired in less than 24 hours, and when I said no huge rush as I'd already grabbed a $60 skinny cellular data pack he told me to take the cost of the data off my next rent payment. So yeah.. he's an absolute top bloke in my books lol.

ammazing guy, hopefully you never leave. i'd almost bet his next tenant will be a right twit...

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#2031703 7-Jun-2018 20:45

@chorusnz I think it's a bit rich for you guys to say that beforeyoudig doesn't show the exact location of the cables on private property installed by your subcontractors, leave no markings, not put it in conduit, and then say it's not your fault if it gets broken. Let alone claiming that bare fibre without a conduit run tight against a fence post _shallowly under the ground_ is acceptable workmanship. I genuinely cannot see how the fence guy was supposed to know exactly where it was without conduit or markers of any sort. If it had been in a conduit where it is, even unmarked they would have broken the conduit but probably not the cable, and it wouldn't have been an issue.

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#2031705 7-Jun-2018 20:47

hio77:

ammazing guy, hopefully you never leave. i'd almost bet his next tenant will be a right twit...

He's already a contender for best landlord I've ever had lol.

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#2031746 7-Jun-2018 22:00

Lias:

@chorusnz I think it's a bit rich for you guys to say that beforeyoudig doesn't show the exact location of the cables on private property installed by your subcontractors, leave no markings, not put it in conduit, and then say it's not your fault if it gets broken. Let alone claiming that bare fibre without a conduit run tight against a fence post _shallowly under the ground_ is acceptable workmanship. I genuinely cannot see how the fence guy was supposed to know exactly where it was without conduit or markers of any sort. If it had been in a conduit where it is, even unmarked they would have broken the conduit but probably not the cable, and it wouldn't have been an issue.

I agree here, I am pretty sure the guys that did my fiber install on Tuesday came up with a plan and I'm positive didn't update where they ended up trenching so the "As-Builts" will be different... also looking at the standards that Chorus posted in a link states that there is meant to be conduit not just the cable also as per the document https://sp.chorus.co.nz/chorus/files/files/Install_Standards_trenching.pdf

"Where the service lead is trenched, cable warning tape needs to be installed from the network terminal up to the customer’s premises."

If you are saying there is standards then these standards should be being adhered too..

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#2031759 7-Jun-2018 22:38

ResponseMediaNZ:

"Where the service lead is trenched, cable warning tape needs to be installed from the network terminal up to the customer’s premises."

i bought a roll of this tape, looking at the bill.... i can see why they avoid using it!

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#2031764 7-Jun-2018 22:56

Chorusnz:

In regards to the fence replacing example, and order can be placed though the broadband provider to get previous install moved I.E taken of the fence and run in a temporary fashion until it can be reattached to the new fence or placed in a new position. The will be costs involved to do this though.

^Mike

Hi Mike,

I am going to call BS on this, despite several requests, Chorus has refused to run a temporary UFB connection while a conduit was put in the ground. to quote the Chorus tech "we don't do temporary"

It took 3 months for chorus to put a conduit / duct in the ground that was only 50m from the pit. It cost $2600 + GST and thousands of dollars in 4G data.

Fiber only subdivision so no copper for ADSL or VDSL

It would be nice if Chorus would do a temporary connection and pre install ducting on public land before a business moves in, Ordered UFB in December, Moved into building May, UFB finally connected in August.

John

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#2031769 7-Jun-2018 23:02

Chorusnz:

you can find the install-standards here : https://sp.chorus.co.nz/tools-and-support/install-standards

^Mike

Hi Mike,

I am calling BS on this too,

You show the install techs this and they say, no, it is outdated, we do it this way or not at all.

There is know one checking the installers work and making sure they meet the guidelines.

John

I know enough to be dangerous

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#2031775 7-Jun-2018 23:16

chevrolux:

Here is one from just today. Business address...

The customer called us because the Chorus contractor had given him a QUOTE to install his fibre in conduit as opposed to surface mount. He was confused because we were of course offering a free install and yet this contractor basically wasn't going to do it unless he was allowed to cable tie/clip to the fence.

Now two fold here I think... I do think perhaps the customer wasn't giving us the full story as I know he is quite particular. But on the same token, his next door neighbours connection was down for a day because some undesirable ripped it off the fence and obviously pulled it hard enough to break something which I think is why he might have been persistent the contractor used conduit.

The kicker for me is the current copper lead-in is a 50-pair going to an old demarc in the building. It's in a *50mm* surface mount conduit that is saddled along an old cinder block nib wall. And then some guy rocks along to install the latest and greatest with a handful of cable clips, zip ties and a tiny little tube! Christ, five years ago (maybe more...) we would have been absolutely crucified for even surface mounting a 20mm conduit carrying a copper lead-in, and yet now there is zero issue doing that.

Something isn't right.

We had one last year that the Chorus duct is blocked between the business and pit ( 20m as the crow flies no more than 50m total taking longest route ) Chorus refuses to unblock it, will cut newish driveway / carpark or tack along the fence, neither is a professional permanent solution for business or residential IMO. The duct was good enough to blow a single pair cable a few years ago but is somehow now blocked.

We also had a client quoted $2600+gst to install UFB, brand new building in fiber only subdivision, all they needed to do was put in a conduit for 50m. Complete and utter rip off.

I would only allow surface mount if the conduit was 25 - 50mm galv steel pipe, will survive all knocks and bumps, wont rust for 50 years or more if it goes in the ground and not easily pierced by tree roots.

John

I know enough to be dangerous

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#2031801 8-Jun-2018 06:43

@chorusnz i think you actually need to go back and look at what is going on in your company, this crap happens every day because your scopers and techs have no idea what they are doing, i have been to multiple sites where you have been and installed fiber and the workmanship is so crap that you can pull the fiber out of the ground with your bare hands as its only burred a spade depth, never mind your requirements on depth and how there should be a duct installed, its like the techs dont give a toss and they know that nothings going to happen because you dont check their work!

my sister and her partner have requested fiber at their property, and the scoper has been out and has a look at it and the install that he as said that they will do is the dumbest and most stupidest path/route that he reccomends to install this micro crap of a duct,

now tell me they arent serious and arent going to do it this way, this is just pure lasyness and stupidity at play here, they will end up in the same situation as the op in this thread if the neighbor decides to remove the fence or repair the fence. i mean look at this picture.

how dumb is that, you can clearly see that there is a grass verge up the driveway on the right hand side of the property, but still you itiots want to cut the concrete not once but twice just so you can clip that crap to the fence.

come on chorus, your suposed to be building a network that will last years not minutes!

you need to employ people that know how to use tools and a brain for that fact, not some paper shuffler that has a claim to fame that thinks they are the know all the tricks of the trade and claims to be something that they are not!

Jase2985

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#2031813 8-Jun-2018 07:06

@lias the black cable is the conduit, it houses the fibre inside it. so by their standards the conduit is attached to the fence.

IMO this is shoddy and not building a resiliant network thats made to last. its also putting cost back on the person because ultimately sooner or later its going to fail and need to be replaced.

Chorusnz

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#2031976 8-Jun-2018 10:49

chevrolux:

Here is one from just today. Business address...

The customer called us because the Chorus contractor had given him a QUOTE to install his fibre in conduit as opposed to surface mount. He was confused because we were of course offering a free install and yet this contractor basically wasn't going to do it unless he was allowed to cable tie/clip to the fence.

Now two fold here I think... I do think perhaps the customer wasn't giving us the full story as I know he is quite particular. But on the same token, his next door neighbours connection was down for a day because some undesirable ripped it off the fence and obviously pulled it hard enough to break something which I think is why he might have been persistent the contractor used conduit.

The kicker for me is the current copper lead-in is a 50-pair going to an old demarc in the building. It's in a *50mm* surface mount conduit that is saddled along an old cinder block nib wall. And then some guy rocks along to install the latest and greatest with a handful of cable clips, zip ties and a tiny little tube! Christ, five years ago (maybe more...) we would have been absolutely crucified for even surface mounting a 20mm conduit carrying a copper lead-in, and yet now there is zero issue doing that.

Something isn't right.

I would agree that confusion will arise from a rollout project of this sizes and meeting exceptions is complex.

Essentially the documents I posted early are for the agreed standards on a free install under the rollout project. “Free” being the key word however with this comes some limitations.

That's not to say you can't get it done with traditional trenching, but that would come at cost. Although thanks to new tech and methods the cost has come down even for this type of work.

Back in the day, from memory so I stand to be corrected on this one, a copper install could cost upwards of $1k for an install in a high density area, $2-3k in a medium density area and $5k in a low density area.

The surface mounted Fibre cable is in a conduit. The black (or sometimes white) micro duct you see as a cable is very strong. It’s not impenetrable, no conduit is. But it has the same strength as any electrical grade PVC conduit.

^Mike

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#2032029 8-Jun-2018 12:01

ResponseMediaNZ:

Lias:

@chorusnz I think it's a bit rich for you guys to say that beforeyoudig doesn't show the exact location of the cables on private property installed by your subcontractors, leave no markings, not put it in conduit, and then say it's not your fault if it gets broken. Let alone claiming that bare fibre without a conduit run tight against a fence post _shallowly under the ground_ is acceptable workmanship. I genuinely cannot see how the fence guy was supposed to know exactly where it was without conduit or markers of any sort. If it had been in a conduit where it is, even unmarked they would have broken the conduit but probably not the cable, and it wouldn't have been an issue.

I agree here, I am pretty sure the guys that did my fiber install on Tuesday came up with a plan and I'm positive didn't update where they ended up trenching so the "As-Builts" will be different... also looking at the standards that Chorus posted in a link states that there is meant to be conduit not just the cable also as per the document https://sp.chorus.co.nz/chorus/files/files/Install_Standards_trenching.pdf

"Where the service lead is trenched, cable warning tape needs to be installed from the network terminal up to the customer’s premises."

If you are saying there is standards then these standards should be being adhered too..

That sounds like shallow burry or Slot trenching.

Slot trenching in soft surfaces like dirt, sand and gravel has a different set of guidelines. The slot is usually 50 to 60 mm wide and 200mm deep. After we install the fibre cable we backfill, compact and scatter grass seed as necessary.

I would say it’s a fair assumption if the governing body’s involved with buried assets are not contacted and a contractor has gone ahead with work on his own accord without consultation the cost of damage would fall solely on the contractor.

If notified of work, advice can be pre-provided free of charge and gas, power or telco can work with them for a solution.

When involved it goes without saying responsibilities are shared to a reasonable degree I.E: If we said dig it exactly over there and you hit our cable that would be on us.

Whatever the solution it’s easier, and less costly, if we know first.

^Mike

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#2032175 8-Jun-2018 14:33

Chorusnz:

Essentially the documents I posted early are for the agreed standards on a free install under the rollout project.

Who agreeded or decided on these stadards?

I dont believe the microducts were used till a few years back, and all the initial fibre installs were trenched/thrusted and were of a much higher standard.

Im guessing cost cutting has come along and you have ditched the better method of installs for a cheaper faster method at the expense of longevity of the network.

chevrolux

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#2032204 8-Jun-2018 15:14

Chorusnz:

Back in the day, from memory so I stand to be corrected on this one, a copper install could cost upwards of $1k for an install in a high density area, $2-3k in a medium density area and $5k in a low density area.

The surface mounted Fibre cable is in a conduit. The black (or sometimes white) micro duct you see as a cable is very strong. It’s not impenetrable, no conduit is. But it has the same strength as any electrical grade PVC conduit.

^Mike

Copper lead-ins were $109.25+gst. I remember that because we had to hand write dockets back then. That was from 0-60m. And then anything from was POA. That was barely "back in the day either" haha. That was 2007-2008ish.

Sorry, but microduct IS NOT a conduit. It takes a hell of a lot more (like A LOT) work to break a Chorus 20mm White conduit than a "rugged" microduct.

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