No cell reception at house; worried about moving to fibre & having issues with Landline

Forums › New Zealand Broadband › No cell reception at house; worried about moving to fibre & having issues with Landline

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#2085595 7-Sep-2018 12:45

Tomahawk66:
nitro:

Tomahawk66:

I turn the router off as why have it on using power and possibly getting warm when it doesn't need to be. I turn everything off if it isn't used.

wouldn't that screw up your sync speed?

Sync speed of what? I use one desk top computer, that's it.

It would impact the xDSL sync rate due to DLM thinking you have an unstable line as you keep powering off the modem

John

Tomahawk66

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#2085596 7-Sep-2018 12:46

Linux:
Tomahawk66:

Linux: You have choices to provide mobile coverage VodafoneNZ sells Sure Signal and 2degrees offers Wi-Fi calling

John

So I would have to buy this thing (which I can't afford to do) and then change ISP from Spark to Vodafone for this thing to work?

Sure Signal will work on any fixed NZ ISP connection now and has for a few years

I have seen Sure Signal units for Sale on Trademe as low as $60

John

Thanks for this info John :-)

Linux

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#2085597 7-Sep-2018 12:48

Even a brand new Sure Signal unit direct from VodafoneNZ does not cost that much well under $200

John

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#2085599 7-Sep-2018 12:49

Linux:
Tomahawk66:

nitro:

Tomahawk66:

I turn the router off as why have it on using power and possibly getting warm when it doesn't need to be. I turn everything off if it isn't used.

wouldn't that screw up your sync speed?

Sync speed of what? I use one desk top computer, that's it.

It would impact the xDSL sync rate due to DLM thinking you have an unstable line as you keep powering off the modem

John

Ah.... so what you are talking about here is if I was connected to fibre and kept turning off the router I would have the problem you describe above ?

As you can probably tell, I'm not a computer geek... but don't consider myself a 'tin foil' head either ;-)

Linux

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#2085602 7-Sep-2018 12:52

Fibre does not use DLM copper xDSL does

John

wratterus

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#2085603 7-Sep-2018 12:52

You wouldn't have the same issue on Fibre, DLM is purely a copper thing, but it's still generally recommended to leave the router running.

Spark do 'terminate' voice direct to the ONT, so with them, you can turn your router off and still have landline.

With Vodafone (and most other providers) you can't do this, as they use their router for voice, so you would need to leave this on all the time for your landline phone to work.

RunningMan

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#2085605 7-Sep-2018 12:57

@Tomahawk66 your thread seems to have got a little derailed, but to revisit your queries:

Fibre in general terms is far less prone to issues than copper, and easier to diagnose when it does have a problem. It's more resilient to weather related issues, so the problems tend to be active equipment failure, or damage (think diggers), both of which would take out multiple customers across an area, not just a single customer. As such, it's frequently known there is an issue without each individual end user having to log a fault with their ISP.

It's very very rare to have actual fibre dropping out - never say never, but in most cases this is something wrong with the end user's router, not the fibre itself.

There are two ways of delivering a landline over fibre - it it either terminates on the ONT, or on the router/ATA. This depends on which company you buy services from, as it has to match with their systems. As an example, Spark will use one of the voice ports on the ONT, Voyager will use a voice port on the HG659 router. Obviously if the ISP you choose uses the router, then that has to be on and functioning for the landline to work.

I wouldn't be terribly concerned about the scenario of there being a failure and not being able to contact your ISP. Particularly if you go for an ISP that uses the ONT voice ports, then the chances of this happening are no higher (probably even less) than your current copper connection.

On a different note, there's some comments about you turning the modem on and off currently. This will have a negative effect on the speed of your internet connection, because the connection is seen as unstable, so the speed is pulled back to try and increase reliability. It won't cause any damage if you want to keep doing it, but just be aware that your connection will have lower throughput than if it were connected all the time, so you may not be getting the most out of the connection you have.

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Tomahawk66

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#2085607 7-Sep-2018 13:19

RunningMan:

@Tomahawk66 your thread seems to have got a little derailed, but to revisit your queries:

Fibre in general terms is far less prone to issues than copper, and easier to diagnose when it does have a problem. It's more resilient to weather related issues, so the problems tend to be active equipment failure, or damage (think diggers), both of which would take out multiple customers across an area, not just a single customer. As such, it's frequently known there is an issue without each individual end user having to log a fault with their ISP.

It's very very rare to have actual fibre dropping out - never say never, but in most cases this is something wrong with the end user's router, not the fibre itself.

There are two ways of delivering a landline over fibre - it it either terminates on the ONT, or on the router/ATA. This depends on which company you buy services from, as it has to match with their systems. As an example, Spark will use one of the voice ports on the ONT, Voyager will use a voice port on the HG659 router. Obviously if the ISP you choose uses the router, then that has to be on and functioning for the landline to work.

I wouldn't be terribly concerned about the scenario of there being a failure and not being able to contact your ISP. Particularly if you go for an ISP that uses the ONT voice ports, then the chances of this happening are no higher (probably even less) than your current copper connection.

On a different note, there's some comments about you turning the modem on and off currently. This will have a negative effect on the speed of your internet connection, because the connection is seen as unstable, so the speed is pulled back to try and increase reliability. It won't cause any damage if you want to keep doing it, but just be aware that your connection will have lower throughput than if it were connected all the time, so you may not be getting the most out of the connection you have.

Thank you so much Running Man. This is most reassuring. And I won't now turn the modem off anymore after hearing everyone's comments.

Aredwood

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#2085670 7-Sep-2018 14:17

Also note that with fibre. The ONT has an indicator light that shows if the fibre connection to the exchange is working.

If that changes to red, it means that the connection to the exchange has broken. This is something that the end customer definitely can't fix themselves. So no problem with having to drive up the road to report a fault should that occour.

And it is still far easier to report faults now, compared to back in the 90s. Hardly anyone had cellphones, And you could only report faults via a phone call. And since internet was via dial up, so definitely no way to report faults via the internet.

Yet now, and even with DSL, it is possible to have a fault that would mean no phone, but internet still works.

Tomahawk66

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#2085677 7-Sep-2018 14:24

Aredwood: Also note that with fibre. The ONT has an indicator light that shows if the fibre connection to the exchange is working.

If that changes to red, it means that the connection to the exchange has broken. This is something that the end customer definitely can't fix themselves. So no problem with having to drive up the road to report a fault should that occour.

Sorry I don't quite understand what you are saying here. If it changes to red it means the connection is broken so does that show up somewhere and chorus will automatically know about it and start to fix it?

Linux

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#2085706 7-Sep-2018 15:08

Tomahawk66:
Aredwood: Also note that with fibre. The ONT has an indicator light that shows if the fibre connection to the exchange is working.

If that changes to red, it means that the connection to the exchange has broken. This is something that the end customer definitely can't fix themselves. So no problem with having to drive up the road to report a fault should that occour.

Sorry I don't quite understand what you are saying here. If it changes to red it means the connection is broken so does that show up somewhere and chorus will automatically know about it and start to fix it?

You still need to log a job with your RSP

John

Aredwood

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#2085757 7-Sep-2018 16:05

Tomahawk66:
Aredwood: Also note that with fibre. The ONT has an indicator light that shows if the fibre connection to the exchange is working.

If that changes to red, it means that the connection to the exchange has broken. This is something that the end customer definitely can't fix themselves. So no problem with having to drive up the road to report a fault should that occour.

Sorry I don't quite understand what you are saying here. If it changes to red it means the connection is broken so does that show up somewhere and chorus will automatically know about it and start to fix it?

As said by Linux, you still need to log a fault. This is because Chorus won't be able to tell from their end what the reason for the broken connection is automatically. As they won't know if a broken connection is an actual fault, or due to say a power cut. Or someone just switching off the power to the ONT.

But fault finding is still easier on fibre. If the "optical link" light is green, then you know that the physical fibre connection is working. Then it is just a case of checking that the router still has power, and is plugged into the ONT. Often the ISP help desk can then remotely login to the router, to check settings etc.

Much easier than on copper, where they ask you to unplug all of your telephones etc before they will let you log a fault. Also I'm guessing that you have never had to go through trying to get an intermittent copper line fault traced and repaired? It happened to me. It took at least 3 months to be fixed properly. Lots of frustration, as that was before UFB and cheap mobile data were available. Switching to fibre is worth it just as insurance against such a fault occouring.

Have a read of this thread.

https://www.geekzone.co.nz/forums.asp?forumid=49&topicid=240342

Tomahawk66

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#2085802 7-Sep-2018 17:15

Aredwood:
Tomahawk66:

Aredwood: Also note that with fibre. The ONT has an indicator light that shows if the fibre connection to the exchange is working.

If that changes to red, it means that the connection to the exchange has broken. This is something that the end customer definitely can't fix themselves. So no problem with having to drive up the road to report a fault should that occour.

Sorry I don't quite understand what you are saying here. If it changes to red it means the connection is broken so does that show up somewhere and chorus will automatically know about it and start to fix it?

As said by Linux, you still need to log a fault. This is because Chorus won't be able to tell from their end what the reason for the broken connection is automatically. As they won't know if a broken connection is an actual fault, or due to say a power cut. Or someone just switching off the power to the ONT.

But fault finding is still easier on fibre. If the "optical link" light is green, then you know that the physical fibre connection is working. Then it is just a case of checking that the router still has power, and is plugged into the ONT. Often the ISP help desk can then remotely login to the router, to check settings etc.

Much easier than on copper, where they ask you to unplug all of your telephones etc before they will let you log a fault. Also I'm guessing that you have never had to go through trying to get an intermittent copper line fault traced and repaired? It happened to me. It took at least 3 months to be fixed properly. Lots of frustration, as that was before UFB and cheap mobile data were available. Switching to fibre is worth it just as insurance against such a fault occouring.

Have a read of this thread.

https://www.geekzone.co.nz/forums.asp?forumid=49&topicid=240342

Thanks have read the thread. Had issues once, copper cable was fixed and put in water proof casing (from memory) buried in garden again and haven't had a problem in years.

So, if I understand things correctly so far.... if I use Spark fibre, they have the ONT box and if my phone line cable is connected directly to that, the land line phone will still work even if the router fails or something else goes wrong and I can't access the internet, I will still be able to phone them up using my landline and tell them I have a fault. Yes ??

But, if the red light comes on on the ONT box, that means no connection at all and therefore no internet, no voip land line phone ? Yes??

hio77

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#2085806 7-Sep-2018 17:21

Exactly.

Red light = issue connecting back to exchange.

In terms of fault volumes, most fibre customers are likely to have issues nearest to their streets installation (while chorus are onboarding and potentional spade failures) but past that, It's a digital signal, it works or it doesnt.

near on all the time any fault is a red light for a known outage or user error (eg plugged in incorrectly)

The fact that you have gone so long without a Copper fault is bloody lucky.

I'd jump across to fibre.

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Tomahawk66

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#2085810 7-Sep-2018 17:34

hio77:

Exactly.

Red light = issue connecting back to exchange.

In terms of fault volumes, most fibre customers are likely to have issues nearest to their streets installation (while chorus are onboarding and potentional spade failures) but past that, It's a digital signal, it works or it doesnt. near on all the time any fault is a red light for a known outage or user error (eg plugged in incorrectly)

The fact that you have gone so long without a Copper fault is bloody lucky.

I'd jump across to fibre.

Thanks, and here in again is my problem. A red light fault, either a known outage, or my own stupid fault plugging something in wrong means the phone won't work.... so I can not call the ISP about it and I can't contact anyone via internet to get it fixed. So I'm stuffed. Until and hopefully it is just a known outage and it will eventually all come back on line.

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