Rural township UFB

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quickymart

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#3320460 14-Dec-2024 15:16

MichaelNZ:

That was a bit lower then I thought but its possible it could be a case of sample bias on my part. I don't know everyone in the township and it could be the people I do know of represent an outsized sample of those who have connections.

In that case, I wonder what a survey of what the townspeople think would say? I can clearly see you're interested in getting fibre personally but asking around how everyone else feels (and if they would be happy contributing - if required) could be a useful barometer of how happy (or unhappy) they are with their current broadband options.

A guy in Outram near Dunedin tried this previously and found that (from memory) while most townspeople were happy with what they had, most weren't too fussed with whether they could get fibre or not. There's a lengthy thread on here about it - although admittedly his situation was more about the poor broadband at the time, as opposed to being happy with what he had but looking for better.

https://www.geekzone.co.nz/forums.asp?forumid=49&topicid=147241 if you feel like a long read.

MichaelNZ

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#3320474 14-Dec-2024 15:56

quickymart:

In that case, I wonder what a survey of what the townspeople think would say? I can clearly see you're interested in getting fibre personally but asking around how everyone else feels (and if they would be happy contributing - if required) could be a useful barometer of how happy (or unhappy) they are with their current broadband options.

That is exactly right and that's the dilemma.

As Ray Taylor pointed out most of the township who has a connection its VDSL and they are getting well into the 10's of Mbps or even over 100.

Noone really wants to pay for it but sure as anything they (and me) will be up in arms if Chorus wants to disconnect it. Well, that is pretty close to the scenario except... Norsewood is an usual situation (along with the nearest town of Dannevirke) in that there was (current status unknown) a private fibre option offered by a regional ISP. From what I understand it was connected with a deal they had with the council for their internal needs. But addresses along its path could connect for a fee. How much that fee was is info I only have a rough idea but it was quite steep. We are close but not on its path and they quoted to service us some years ago at over $70k. It would have been a better deal for me to buy one of the several empty shops in Dannevirke and work out of there.

But I know there is/was at least 2 properties who presumably paid some money and connected.

But this is no different to a bunch of other townships and settlements which have gotten UFB. Same demographics and rural attitudes. But for some reason they won the lottery.

I think the chance is far better then not Chorus will have to get around to us sometime within the next 5 years. Ditto for Ormondville, Tikokino and Pongaroa, and maybe Porangahou.

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quickymart

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#3320623 14-Dec-2024 21:11

MichaelNZ:

I think the chance is far better then not Chorus will have to get around to us sometime within the next 5 years. Ditto for Ormondville, Tikokino and Pongaroa, and maybe Porangahou.

The current plan is for the extension underway to be finished by mid-2025, as per here: https://www.chorus.co.nz/residential/fibre-extension

Past that, any more extensions will require further funding, I would say.

MichaelNZ

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#3320629 14-Dec-2024 21:59

quickymart:

The current plan is for the extension underway to be finished by mid-2025, as per here: https://www.chorus.co.nz/residential/fibre-extension

Past that, any more extensions will require further funding, I would say.

And then there will be another announcement of some further places.

To use an example of this area:

2x VDSL ISAMS in Dannevirke which will need further UFB build prior to removal

6x VDSL ISAMS almost immediately surrounding Dannevirke

1 VDSL ISAM in Takapau which will need further UFB build prior to removal. Why they didn't finish off Sydney Terrace, as well as Sydney Street and Charlotte Street to SH2 is a mystery.

14 (at a quick count) VDSL ISAMS in other parts of Tararua not counted above

Further UFB build in Waipukurau (2 VDSL ISAMS), Waipawa, Ongaonga and Otane (1 each)

5 (at a quick count) VDSL ISAMS in Central HB not counted above

Rinse and repeat all over the country. They have plenty more work to do.

Whether these all get done by 2030 I don't know. Some are on rural roads. But I think the UFB network extensions, townships and settlements (incl Norsewood) have a reasonable chance. From what I know of Chrous approach they may (for example) do Norsewood and Ormondville townships but not the road inbetween. But even under this scenario we would be included.

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quickymart

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#3320630 14-Dec-2024 22:06

If you say so, but where is all the funding for all these further out/fringe extensions going to come from?

MichaelNZ

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#3320635 14-Dec-2024 22:17

quickymart:

If you say so, but where is all the funding for all these further out/fringe extensions going to come from?

From your first post in this discussion you seem to be taking a somewhat counter-view.

Firstly, under the present regulatory scenario Chorus is obliged to continue to provide copper internet services (in established areas) until they roll out UFB. I have linked supporting citations in a previous post. I have found only one local address which this may not apply to. I would have to go and check it out but assume it was sub-divided more recently.

Secondly, we lived in Henderson which was one of the first areas ever to be rolled out for UFB in 2011 (from memory). And diddums they did the main road feeding to our street but not our street. They went back some years later after we had moved here and finished the job. So some things take their merry time.

Thirdly, go and have a look at the Broadband Map and filter for VDSL and UFB and have a look at where they have done and planned. You may be quite surprised.

I suppose they will come up with the money the same way they did for all the others. Or maybe a middle ground as I suggested here.

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quickymart

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#3320637 14-Dec-2024 22:24

Thanks I already know about that map and I am aware of the current and planned extensions.

Not taking any counter-view, just asking where you realistically think the funding for all this is going to come from (if not from the government).

If you read the Outram thread (not sure if you did or not - it's quite lengthy) the guy there was doing a petition to try and improve the broadband in that town (which is larger than yours). I'll grant you that was 10 years ago and things do change over time, but there's no requirement for copper services to be replaced by fibre anywhere. In the end, Outram got fibre installed once goverment funding was provided to allow an extension to be built there.

For all I know, the government may come to the party again, and provide further funding for places like Norsewood - but at the moment it's not planned to happen. Having said that I'm happy to be proven wrong though.

MichaelNZ

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#3320638 14-Dec-2024 22:29

quickymart:

but there's no requirement for copper services to be replaced by fibre anywhere.

Hold on a minute. That's not what I said.

MichaelNZ:

Firstly, under the present regulatory scenario Chorus is obliged to continue to provide copper internet services (in established areas) until they roll out UFB. I have linked supporting citations in a previous post.

However, it is a logical conclusion they have to continue to roll out UFB to meet their self imposed plan to turn off copper by 2030.

I did read the Outram thread, thanks. Its the same dilemma which I elaborated on here.

We have had another lengthy discussion here today about this and for now we have decided to wait it out for a funded install or better deal. We still have 5 years to go.

Thanks to the feedback from the various Geekzone folk has helped us clarify our position.

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raytaylor

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#3320686 15-Dec-2024 09:56

MichaelNZ:

Firstly, under the present regulatory scenario Chorus is obliged to continue to provide copper internet services (in established areas) until they roll out UFB.

RBI2 is taking those addresses and providing an alternative option. Once the RBI2 build is finished, i expect chorus will no longer be required to provide service to those addresses.

Even though starlink is now avaliable (for less cost than many VDSL plans and faster) NIFF is still funding the RBI2 build and local ISPs are still constructing so the end user addresses have options for when the copper withdrawal is set in those areas.

Lets face it - there are VDSL cabinets out there that have radio backhaul or large coverage areas without the population density to warrant a fibre rollout so that wont be happening.

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MichaelNZ

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#3320690 15-Dec-2024 10:19

Outlier situations don't prove a case.

I have never seen a radio-fed VDSL cabinet in the wild. Maybe they exist but all of the ones in our area which I frequently pass by are fibre-fed.

At this time RBI is barely relevant because its mostly been rolled out for areas which don't have another option. Prior to RBI those people were using hotspoted cellphones from high spots, fixed wireless if they had a WISP which serviced the area, or IP Star. Anyone remember that?

Right now there are dozens of places which probably shouldn't have UFB by the same reasoning and yet they do. Greater Auckland has been particularly fortunate in this regard. Worse case scenario this offers many alternative options.

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Jase2985

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#3320703 15-Dec-2024 11:21

MichaelNZ:

Right now there are dozens of places which probably shouldn't have UFB by the same reasoning and yet they do.

Name some please.

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MichaelNZ

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#3320708 15-Dec-2024 11:42

Jase2985:

Name some please.

You can just as easily look on the Broadband Map and see it explained far better then I can in a post.

But to pick some random examples:

Hokio Beach

Pukawa

Kuaotunu

Tapu

Waiomu

Puriri

Maungatapere

Those are among the smallest according to the map. But at the next tier up (settlements, not even towns) there is easily 100+ examples.

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Jase2985

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#3320711 15-Dec-2024 12:00

MichaelNZ:

Jase2985:

Name some please.

You can just as easily look on the Broadband Map and see it explained far better then I can in a post.

But to pick some random examples:

Hokio Beach Population 190 (June 2024)

Pukawa Population 50 (June 2024) Location is super close to Omori 260 Population, which likely made it easier/cheaper to install.

Kuaotunu Population 230 (June 2024)

Tapu Population 260 (June 2024

Waiomu Population 370 (June 2024)

Puriri Population 240 (June 2024)

Maungatapere Population: 350 (Jun 2023)

Those are among the smallest according to the map. But at the next tier up (settlements, not even towns) there is easily 100+ examples.

Norsewood Population: 150 (Jun 2023)

see above, every other place has a higher population, and when looking at a map a higher density of houses than Norsewood.

Sorry, mate, but it's starting to sound a little like sour grapes that your town has missed out. There has to be a cut-off somewhere, as there was only limited funding and as has been mentioned there are very few connections where you live and of those that do have connections most have good reliable and fast connections.

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