Rural township UFB

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MichaelNZ

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#318065 11-Dec-2024 21:20

Over the last few days Chorus has been rolling out "custom" UFB for an RCG cellsite at the Norsewood township. This does not go past our place, however, I have noted a couple of things:

They appear to be building something which they intend to do more with at some stage judging by the amount of cabling they are installing. This is a new pit. See photo.
Their estimate for a custom UFB install to our place has dropped from ~$55k to ~$15k. The network extension to our boundary is around 230m.
If they rollout UFB here our address would certainly be included.

So for the dilemma. Do I pay $15k (which is an amount I still need to think about) or hold out for a rollout? There was no way it was going to happen at $55k but at $15k I am thinking a bit too much about it.

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#3319417 11-Dec-2024 21:25

Where is this?

MichaelNZ

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#3319418 11-Dec-2024 21:26

quickymart:

Where is this?

Norsewood, in the township. Its not included in the current "10,000 rollout". I have updated my original post.

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toejam316

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#3319451 12-Dec-2024 08:38

The 15k will probably include the cost of the OLT card, etc. and will drop more if someone else orders it first. I'd ask Chorus how much of the cost is shared infrastructure versus my install only, and have a chat to some locals about sharing that shared infrastructure cost.

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CYaBro

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#3319455 12-Dec-2024 09:02

$15k is cheap if they have to run fibre 230m to your boundary.

We paid $14k to connect to the fibre that runs right past the front of our rural property.
Only a couple of metres from the fibre to our boundary and from there to the house is approx. 20m.

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nztim

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#3319457 12-Dec-2024 09:07

I would get your Neighbours to pool together and get a build done, if you pay $15k now you are subsiding the next bloke/lass who comes along

there will be some sunk costs for the entire area which you will want to share rather than fund yourself

your VDSL is over 100mbps tho right?

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boosacnoodle

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#3319475 12-Dec-2024 09:56

Surely there is a better way to do this wherein:

Chorus quotes a build for a given township / area will cost approx. $X, the community contribution of which is $Y
Everyone pays a deposit into the Community Contribution (held in trust) till the total of $Y is hit
- This avoids the risk of lumping the majority of the cost with just one or two people
Chorus starts the build

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MichaelNZ

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#3319482 12-Dec-2024 10:19

toejam316:

The 15k will probably include the cost of the OLT card, etc. and will drop more if someone else orders it first.

We would also be run from the same pit as the cellsite and presumably share the line card. It would only take 1 card to do the whole township. AFAIK they support 64 connections each but hopefully one of our Chorus affiliated members will see this thread and help out, please :-)

toejam316:

[...] and have a chat to some locals about sharing that shared infrastructure cost.

nztim:

I would get your Neighbours to pool together and get a build done, if you pay $15k now you are subsiding the next bloke/lass who comes along

The whole "neighbours" thing is a red herring. Its a country town, not the membership of GZ.

Yes, that is exactly right. First mover pays the bulk of the cost. If I do it, then subsequently everyone else along the route could connect with a non-subsidised install costing $1,500-3,000.

nztim:

your VDSL is over 100mbps tho right?

We have rural VDSL with vectoring. Our connect speed is circa 102Mbps and the Chorus checker indicates our (closer to the exchange) neighbour is getting 113Mbps. But the speed isn't the only consideration. Right now its reliable but this hasn't always been the case and I can see the writing on the wall. 5 years ago I moved our copper feed from one road via our neighbour to directly at our street frontage, and when doing this they found some faults at 3 different spots in the cable and spent hours fixing these.

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nztim

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#3319499 12-Dec-2024 10:54

MichaelNZ:

We would also be run from the same pit as the cellsite and presumably share the line card.

Doesn't work that way, the cellsite will be connected by DFAS to the exchange, UFB is on GPON

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MichaelNZ

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#3319504 12-Dec-2024 11:03

nztim:

Doesn't work that way, the cellsite will be connected by DFAS to the exchange, UFB is on GPON

I was told it was UFB and given the amount of cable in the new pit drew the obvious conclusion. But Chorus is not the easiest company to get information about between the ISP end (which I work with) and the client end.

It could be the cellsite is BS4 which would be UFB but not GPON.

I know next to nothing about RCG.

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nztim

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#3319508 12-Dec-2024 11:22

MichaelNZ:

It could be the cellsite is BS4 which would be UFB but not GPON.

I know next to nothing about RCG.

there is no way the cell site will be running on BS4 it will be DFAS to RCG equipment in the exchange (chorus will just be providing raw glass)

They will still be able to use fibre strands for UFB but there will be the requirement for the GPON electronics in the exchange which the first customer to sign up will pay for.

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Chorusnz

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#3319520 12-Dec-2024 12:25

nztim:

They will still be able to use fibre strands for UFB but there will be the requirement for the GPON electronics in the exchange which the first customer to sign up will pay for.

I'm just a CSR so my knowledge of exactly how the intricacies of network infrastructure works is limited, but can confidently confirm this ^

If Chorus are going to spend the money to put cables in the ground, we may as well future proof it with more tubes for future use. Like when a resident requests a custom build. However the actual components to supply residential Fibre connections are quite different from those used for cell towers, monitoring stations, etc. Hence the first person wanting to jack in using those cables is going to have to front the cost of the GPON equipment. Once its in place subsequent installs will be cheaper.

I don't have any specific details to give, but I have heard on the grapevine that we are looking hard at our custom build process and how can we streamline upgrade requests for a community. Hopefully more to come in the near future.

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MichaelNZ

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#3319552 12-Dec-2024 13:21

Thanks for your contribution @Chorusnz

The issues as I see it with the existing scenario are as follows:

The marketplace expectation is for "free" installs. This is something Chorus has considerably pushed.
Chorus is obliged under the present regulatory requirements to continue to offer VDSL to us and most of our neighbours in perpetuity until UFB is rolled out. I have confirmed this with the right person at the Commerce Commission.
"Custom UFB" installs are considerably biased to new developments and wealthy areas.
Arranging something with enough neighbours in one go to shift the goal posts is wishful thinking. I know what the response will be if I suggest they spend (at a guess) $7,500 each for UFB on a shared basis with 1 or 2 others. Furthermore, in country towns its wisest to stay out of other people's business.
Its actually in their interests to wait until / if I pay the bulk of the cost and then connect, or Chorus is forced to rollout in the area to divest yourselves of copper.
There is no guarantee I would pay the $15k. To a certain extent its in my interests to wait as well.

With all of the above in mind there is a level at which I would not hesitate to pull the trigger for the sake of getting it done.

At present its pay it all or wait for a "free" install. If it helps push things along for fibre I am very amenable to a middle ground. Given the high rate of home ownership in the area I would like to think others would also be willing to pay something.

A suggestion I can offer is run the service and designate it as a "pay to connect" area. I would expect this would bring the connection cost per property down to an amount comparable with non-subsidised installs in areas already rolled out and I suspect this is a lot more likely to fly.

Depending on how you class addresses past (Is it both sides of the road?) the run to here would include around a dozen properties and quick mental sums suggest a similar cost but spread out fairly.

Can you please pass on my feedback.

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quickymart

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#3319558 12-Dec-2024 13:59

With some of your points:

1 - there is no obligation for free installs, in fact when the network was first being rolled out, installs weren't free at all. It wasn't until after the decision was made to make them free that's when fibre installs really took off. I'll grant you that free installs were time-limited, however the date has been extended a couple of times as far as I know.

2 - no, there is a switch-off date for copper (2030), and it certainly won't be "in perpetuity" for anyone - think about places that will never get fibre installed? They would be moved to another solution (most likely wireless or satellite): https://www.chorus.co.nz/help/what-is-copper-network-retirement

3 - with new developments usually the developer has paid the LFC to make fibre available in the new properties they are building

5 - there won't be "forced" rollouts of fibre anywhere to "divest" copper. Once the latter is gone, it's gone.

6 - I would say if you don't pay then the custom install won't go ahead.

Happy to be corrected by someone at Chorus if any of the above is wrong 🙂

MichaelNZ

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#3319559 12-Dec-2024 14:05

quickymart:

2 - no, there is a switch-off date for copper (2030), and it certainly won't be "in perpetuity" for anyone - think about places that will never get fibre installed?

[...]

5 - there won't be "forced" rollouts of fibre anywhere to "divest" copper. Once the latter is gone, it's gone.

I am aware Chorus says that on a back corner of their website and while they may want to do that, the advice I have received from the Commerce Commission is they are obliged to keep providing copper to addresses which existed at a specific date (circa 2000 - ie: most of our township incl us) until they can provide UFB.

Should they seek to change this I would certainly oppose it.

Don't underestimate the ability of country people to kick up a fuss about this sort of stuff. I have seen outrage expressed over the impending loss of analogue phone lines and internet access is a lot further up the totem pole.

quickymart:

6 - I would say if you don't pay then the custom install won't go ahead.

If you look at some of the places they have done or announced "free" rollouts you would understand why the current situation sucks.

Some people - possibly with connections - have gotten lucky for their holiday batches.

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quickymart

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#3319562 12-Dec-2024 14:17

MichaelNZ:

quickymart:

2 - no, there is a switch-off date for copper (2030), and it certainly won't be "in perpetuity" for anyone - think about places that will never get fibre installed?

[...]

5 - there won't be "forced" rollouts of fibre anywhere to "divest" copper. Once the latter is gone, it's gone.

I am aware Chorus says that on a back corner of their website and while they may want to do that, the advice I have received from the Commerce Commission is they are obliged to keep providing copper to addresses which existed at a specific date (circa 2000 - ie: most of our township incl us) until they can provide UFB.

Should they seek to change this I would certainly oppose it.

quickymart:

6 - I would say if you don't pay then the custom install won't go ahead.

If you look at some of the places they have done or announced "free" rollouts you would understand why the current situation sucks.

Some people - possibly with connections - have gotten lucky for their holiday batches.

See the link I posted above - all copper services are set to be retired by 2030. You are welcome to oppose it however I daresay you would need a pretty solid reason to do so. "I'm waiting for UFB" probably isn't going to work as it may never arrive where you are.

"Holiday batches" installs would have been either paid for by the owner or done as part of a community rollout. I highly doubt any "connections" would have resulted in a free install.

Having said that, Chorus do look at community rollouts where possible and/or funding permits - have you looked into this as an option? https://www.chorus.co.nz/residential/rural-and-regional

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