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raytaylor

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#306951 13-Mar-2010 19:45

wjw:

There are no capacity issues with the cable, it's merely one of a) price and b) ISP's who are simply unwilling to invest in capacity that will be used for a few hours per day and remain unused throughout the rest of the day. This is one of the reasons we have seen a rise in offpeak pricing.

Thats what they want to fix:

Mark Rushworth commented: “ a major boost in international capacity is needed to fix the 7pm bottleneck"

The 7pm bottle neck is caused by the high transit prices on the sc cable - causing the isp's not to buy enough capacity, causing the 7pm bottleneck.

The cable itself has enough capacity

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kingjj

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#306952 13-Mar-2010 19:46

Does this new venture have any ties to the proposed new cable Kordia were looking into last year? That seemed to cause a flurry of excitement for a few weeks than die away. Perhaps Kordia would be potential partners for this project, they would certainly be able to contribute to the local infrastructure and be ideal for providing wholesale access.

sbiddle

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#306963 13-Mar-2010 21:12

raytaylor:
wjw:

There are no capacity issues with the cable, it's merely one of a) price and b) ISP's who are simply unwilling to invest in capacity that will be used for a few hours per day and remain unused throughout the rest of the day. This is one of the reasons we have seen a rise in offpeak pricing.

Thats what they want to fix:

Mark Rushworth commented: “ a major boost in international capacity is needed to fix the 7pm bottleneck"

The 7pm bottle neck is caused by the high transit prices on the sc cable - causing the isp's not to buy enough capacity, causing the 7pm bottleneck.

The cable itself has enough capacity

The prices are only part of the issue - regardless of the price no ISP wants to buy excess bandwidth that only gets used for a few hours per day and is unused for the rest of the time. Even if SCC prices were 1/2 of what they are now the same logic would still apply.

Peak time issues occur everywhere in the world - it's just we are reasonably unique in that we have a country with a single timezone and the bulk of our internet traffic is all from outside NZ and carried across a single cable.

Ragnor

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#306970 13-Mar-2010 21:41

It's a pity only a few ISP's in NZ were innovative enough to offer free off peak data to smooth out the peak time issue, however none of them really have sufficient/sensible hardware/management in place to make it work effectively enough.

raytaylor

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#307007 14-Mar-2010 01:16

Ragnor: It's a pity only a few ISP's in NZ were innovative enough to offer free off peak data to smooth out the peak time issue, however none of them really have sufficient/sensible hardware/management in place to make it work effectively enough.

Slingshot cache everything like mad. I would love to see some figures on how much their torrent and p2p caching system is saving them because i bet its huge. As soon as you download a torrent and their cache kicks in, it shoots right up to 600kBps. This is at any time of the day - even 1am when the leechers all come online, and there is still pleanty of bandwidth around for the http surfers.

They cache youtube, and share the official cache with orcon

I have had no problems for about a year now with slingshot.

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Snowflake

#307236 14-Mar-2010 23:43

raytaylor:
wjw:

There are no capacity issues with the cable, it's merely one of a) price and b) ISP's who are simply unwilling to invest in capacity that will be used for a few hours per day and remain unused throughout the rest of the day. This is one of the reasons we have seen a rise in offpeak pricing.

Thats what they want to fix:

Mark Rushworth commented: “ a major boost in international capacity is needed to fix the 7pm bottleneck"

The 7pm bottle neck is caused by the high transit prices on the sc cable - causing the isp's not to buy enough capacity, causing the 7pm bottleneck.

The cable itself has enough capacity

show us some numbers and prove that its the SCC and not the local infrastructure that is the bottleneck.... in the past, all *my* bandwidth problems seemed to be to do with servicing the backhaul requirements from the exchange - not the international capacity.

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Ragnor

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#307327 15-Mar-2010 10:35

Regs:

show us some numbers and prove that its the SCC and not the local infrastructure that is the bottleneck.... in the past, all *my* bandwidth problems seemed to be to do with servicing the backhaul requirements from the exchange - not the international capacity.

It's fair to say BOTH national backhaul and the amount of international bandwidth ISP's can afford to buy are congested at peak time (for most ISP's).

You can't really say there is a congestion problem with SSC as a whole I agree. However, the high cost of international bandwidth that means most ISP's can only afford to run high/bad contention ratios between their amount of international bandwidth and number of active customers.

You don't hear many complaints about premium priced ISP's like Maxnet, Iconz, Actrix, Inspire who seems to buy more bandwidth (per customer ie: lower contention ratio) because they charge higher prices.

Most people make the choice to sacrifice quality for price, see Slingshot, Xnet, Telecom Big Time.

Hopefully Pacific Fibre can bring prices down enough to make a real difference to quality.

PhantomSS

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#307352 15-Mar-2010 12:00

raytaylor:
Ragnor: It's a pity only a few ISP's in NZ were innovative enough to offer free off peak data to smooth out the peak time issue, however none of them really have sufficient/sensible hardware/management in place to make it work effectively enough.

Slingshot cache everything like mad. I would love to see some figures on how much their torrent and p2p caching system is saving them because i bet its huge. As soon as you download a torrent and their cache kicks in, it shoots right up to 600kBps. This is at any time of the day - even 1am when the leechers all come online, and there is still pleanty of bandwidth around for the http surfers.

They cache youtube, and share the official cache with orcon

I have had no problems for about a year now with slingshot.

The 600kB/s is wrong, it's relative to your line speed. I have a 19 mb connection with Slingshot and I can get over 2000 kB/s from the cache in the offpeak hours from 2am till 8am.

As with youtube, they share ORCON's cache, and only some of it. The rest they cache themselves

c3rn

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#307435 15-Mar-2010 16:37

kingjj: Does this new venture have any ties to the proposed new cable Kordia were looking into last year? That seemed to cause a flurry of excitement for a few weeks than die away. Perhaps Kordia would be potential partners for this project, they would certainly be able to contribute to the local infrastructure and be ideal for providing wholesale access.

This is answered on the first page:

State owned enterprise Kordia, which planning a trans-Tasman fibre optic cable, has welcomed the proposal.

Kordia CEO Geoff Hunt says they have been in discussions with Drury and others over the past few months.

"It'll take more than a lone player to make that happen by 2012," says Hunt.

"Pacific Fibre is planning to work with reputable partners and a strong team to deliver this project on time," says Hunt.

"With the preparatory work that we have already completed on the Auckland to Sydney OptiKor cable, it makes sense for Kordia to team up with Pacific Fibre."

Source: http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/3435625

kingjj

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#307489 15-Mar-2010 18:56

brad_p:
kingjj: Does this new venture have any ties to the proposed new cable Kordia were looking into last year? That seemed to cause a flurry of excitement for a few weeks than die away. Perhaps Kordia would be potential partners for this project, they would certainly be able to contribute to the local infrastructure and be ideal for providing wholesale access.

This is answered on the first page:

State owned enterprise Kordia, which planning a trans-Tasman fibre optic cable, has welcomed the proposal.

Kordia CEO Geoff Hunt says they have been in discussions with Drury and others over the past few months.

"It'll take more than a lone player to make that happen by 2012," says Hunt.

"Pacific Fibre is planning to work with reputable partners and a strong team to deliver this project on time," says Hunt.

"With the preparatory work that we have already completed on the Auckland to Sydney OptiKor cable, it makes sense for Kordia to team up with Pacific Fibre."

Source: http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/3435625

Cheers. I saw that after I made that post but forgot to edit it. With Kordia on-board I have more faith that this project could become a realty.

Kyro

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#307524 15-Mar-2010 20:14

I would only really support this if they delivered it to cities other than Auckland & Wellington. Nearly every proposal like this has been limited to Auckland and Wellington.

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System

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#307536 15-Mar-2010 20:46

Kyro: I would only really support this if they delivered it to cities other than Auckland & Wellington. Nearly every proposal like this has been limited to Auckland and Wellington.

I live outside of those centers too so i know how you feel but part of life is that the areas with the highest population will get it first and therefore that is why they always are the first to be affected, everyone will still get it just at a later date

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Snowflake

#307629 16-Mar-2010 00:07

System:
Kyro: I would only really support this if they delivered it to cities other than Auckland & Wellington. Nearly every proposal like this has been limited to Auckland and Wellington.

I live outside of those centers too so i know how you feel but part of life is that the areas with the highest population will get it first and therefore that is why they always are the first to be affected, everyone will still get it just at a later date

They dont need to land this new cable at each center outside of AKL. Thats what national backhaul is for. There are a few companies that run fibre up and down the country from which backhaul could be purchased - this is not just limited to NZ Telecom. Examples include NZ Telecom, TelstraClear, FX Networks. If the backhaul pricing isnt competitive to some of the regions served by multiple vendors now, the Pacific Fibre cable, on its own, isnt likely to make any difference.

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webwat

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#307950 16-Mar-2010 19:27

freitasm: Apparently won't be operational until 2013, and even so, how can they offer "unlimited broadband" to consumers - unless they provide that directly they'd still have to deal with the ISPs or wholesale...

My guess would be each ISP buys into the cable buy contracting for 1 or more wavelength. When its full up then its the choice of individual ISP to upgrade to 100Mbps or beyond. I also presume each cable will be laid separately (like the southern cross) to improve redundancy.

I have another idea... lay the fibre in a redundant ring from NZ to Chile, to USA, to Japan, to Taiwan, to Australia, and back to NZ. Each leg of the ring could be laid independantly as funding permits or with extra strands for some of the legs, and each submarine link could use different landing points within a country if required. For example, connecting to the Americas might be better to avoid the Kermadec Trench, arriving ashore at Christchurch then transit to the North Island before heading to Sydney. A fault at one site in NZ would mean routing around the break without NZ falling over. Having shorter hops to more countries allows more investors.

Good idea? :)

Time to find a new industry!

Regs

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Snowflake

#308056 16-Mar-2010 23:04

webwat: I have another idea... lay the fibre in a redundant ring from NZ to Chile, to USA, to Japan, to Taiwan, to Australia, and back to NZ. Each leg of the ring could be laid independantly as funding permits or with extra strands for some of the legs, and each submarine link could use different landing points within a country if required.

if one of the design goals of the cable is to reduce latency to destnations like the US, then this isnt the way to achieve it... the only option is a direct connect between NZ and US.

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