what to do about Chorus?

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andynz

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#129353 12-Sep-2013 11:48

For 7 weeks now, I have been trying to an ADSL connection setup. Chorus hooked it up but the link dropped every 1-2 minutes. Never mind, Chorus signed the job off and billed the ISP.

The original link was anything between 3.5-16mbs with drops every minute or so. Chorus seemed to think that was ok. Good enough for them anyway.

After endless efforts from myself, the ISP (FFM) and their backbone supplier, Chorus admitted the link was faulty...but had no plans to fix it. Oh well, the client will probably just accept it and we can carry on billing for the faulty service.

This week Chorus "fixed" the problem. No notes anywhere about what they did and no vists to our property. So now the link is 4mbs but no drops. Apparently that is a good connection for Chorus. The fact that were at 1/4 speed of the original does not seem to be a problem. Another DSL connection we have in to the property, which is 400m longer with 5 more joins sits rock solid at 15mbs.

Chorus say it is just me that is complaining in the area. So rather than take their word, I thought I would find out. I posted on on our local residents Facebook page to see if anyone else has had any trouble...and the complaints came flooding in. There is acutally a whole bunch of people who complain but Chorus just don't want us to get together. Better us all thinking it is just us.

So your thinking were on earth is this guy, the middle of no where. Actually it is Whenuapai/West Harbour in Auckland. Were a couple of k's from the Souther Cross termination point and stones throw form New Zealands main military base with Auckland council about to rezone us to light industrial.

I can remember Telecom writing to us 20 oyears ago about how great caller ID was and faxabilty (remember that?). It never happened here. Chorus have put zero investment into improving the copper cables round here, they just patch them up and drop the ever increasing number of faulty pairs. A common trick of Chorus is to swap your bad pair for your neighbours good pair. Then when the neighbours complain Chorus swap the cable back. It's based on the plan that we will stop complaining in the end and Chorus can ignore the dilapidated cables round here.

Chorus if you don't believe me trying asking your guys on the ground. They will tell you, like they tell us how stuffed the cables round here are.

So Chorus if you think it is just me complaining, I invite you to a public meeting in the Whenuapai Hall the meet all the other people in the area who are tired of the old string we have for a network.

Forget Fibre just give us a standard copper network that works.

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#894693 12-Sep-2013 11:48

Hello... Our robot found some keywords in your post, so here is an automated reply with some important things to note regarding broadband speeds.

If you are posting regarding DSL speeds please check that

- you have reset your modem and router

- your PC (or other PCs in your LAN) is not downloading large files when you are testing

- you are not being throttled by your ISP due to going over the monthly cap

- your tests are always done on an ethernet connection to the router - do not use wireless for testing

- you read this topic and follow the instructions there.

Make sure you provide information for other users to help you. If you have not already done it, please EDIT your post and add this now:

- Your ISP and plan

- Type of connection (ADSL, ADSL2, VDSL)

- Your modem DSL stats (do not worry about posting Speedtest, we need sync rate, attenuation and noise margin)

- Your general location (or street)

- If you are rural or urban

- If you know your connection is to an exchange, cabinet or conklin

- If your connection is to a ULL or wholesale service

- If you have done an isolation test as per the link above

Most of the problems with speed are likely to be related to internal wiring issues. Read this discussion to find out more about this. Your ISP is not intentionally slowing you down today (unless you are on a managed plan). Also if this is the school holidays it's likely you will notice slower than usual speed due to more users online.

A master splitter is required for VDSL2 and in most cases will improve speeds on DSL connections. Regular disconnections can be a monitored alarm or a set top box trying to connect. If there's an alarm connected to your line even if you don't have an alarm contract it may still try to connect so it's worth checking.

I recommend you read these two blog posts:

- Is your premises phone wiring impacting your broadband performance? (very technical)

- Are you receiving a substandard ULL ADSL2+ connection from your ISP?

I am the Geekzone Robot and I am here to help. I am from the Internet. I do not interact. Do not expect other replies from me.

michaelmurfy

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#894704 12-Sep-2013 12:26

The best way to get your copper to work is to get a master filter installed, it honestly sounds like this is what you're needing. Have a look at the first link at the bottom of PeterReaders post. I'd recommend sending a private message to CoffeeBaron, dropping $150 and getting your internal wiring in shape before putting any blame on Chorus.

Michael Murphy | https://murfy.nz
Referral Links: Quic Broadband (use R122101E7CV7Q for free setup)

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andynz

360 posts

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#894708 12-Sep-2013 12:32

Thanks Michael but the history of the cables round here is well known by Chorus.

In my case, the non functional new connection is naked. Jack point to modem .5m cable and no other connections.

Trust me, this is a Chorus issue.

plambrechtsen

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#894712 12-Sep-2013 12:39

These complaints you really need to follow up with your ISP, who in turn will chase up with Chorus.

I don't think you're with Telecom since if you were I would have seen a post in the Telecom forums and I could have chased up.

It's up to your ISP as they are the ones who have the relationship with Chorus and are the ones who chase up when things aren't right.

michaelmurfy

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#894714 12-Sep-2013 12:44

After a quick Google search I do see what you're meaning, I guess the problem is running new copper is a huge cost and the resource consent required is not easy to acquire either. It seems there's UFB going into that general area, is your area in particular covered? Also what street are you on, things really depend on if you're connected to a local cabinet or the exchange and as you know distance is really key when it comes to this.

andynz

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#894718 12-Sep-2013 12:51

Thanks for the suggestion but I have been doing nothing but follow this up with the ISP, FFM. for 7 weeks we have been working at this problem. The ISP's provider is on the case too.

It does not really make any difference who you talk too, Chorus don't listen. I remember last year when we had the Tornado through. Many of us rang Telecom with landline faults. I rang 4 times over a week and was told by Telecom CS (manila) I fault had been lodged and would be fixed. I eventually drove round and found a Chorus tech. He said no specific faults were being passed through. They were just told to fix problems as they were found. . By the way, Vector by contrast where absolutely fantastic during the crisis and supper well organised. Maybe Chorus should study the Vector business model.

Any long chain of communication in communication companies invariably doe not work.

The people in the area who are with Telecom have told me they give up complaining as all they are ever told is the reboot the modem. I'm not making that up, that's what people are telling me.

It is easy to believe your providing a good service to customers when the complaints get binned along the way.

andynz

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#894724 12-Sep-2013 12:59

michaelmurfy: After a quick Google search I do see what you're meaning, I guess the problem is running new copper is a huge cost and the resource consent required is not easy to acquire either. It seems there's UFB going into that general area, is your area in particular covered? Also what street are you on, things really depend on if you're connected to a local cabinet or the exchange and as you know distance is really key when it comes to this.

Hi Michael

Replacing faulty equipment is part of any business model. It's what you factor into running your business. If you don't then your not terrible good at business. We have had some contact from people in Pt Chev who sound in a similar situation, they have been told there is no plans to upgrade their old exchange.

There are no plans for UFB round here. individual customer install costs would be too high anyway. It makes much more sense to replace the current copper and put a couple of extra VDSL cabinets in. 30mbs no problems.

If distance is key then why does my existing ADSL cable which is 400m longer, has 5 more joins, has a monitored alarm and 3 POTS extensions on it get rock solid 15mbs but the new connection with nothing else connected gets either 16mbs with drops every minute or 4mbs otherwise.

We are on Totara Road connected to Waimarie Road roadside cabinet is at:
36°46'45.52"S
174°38'12.42"E

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timmmay

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#894745 12-Sep-2013 13:30

Can you get UFB?

andynz

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#894748 12-Sep-2013 13:32

No sign of any date for UFB and no VDSL available for us.

nigelj

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#894759 12-Sep-2013 14:12

andynz: I can remember Telecom writing to us 20 oyears ago about how great caller ID was and faxabilty (remember that?). It never happened here. Chorus have put zero investment into improving the copper cables round here, they just patch them up and drop the ever increasing number of faulty pairs. A common trick of Chorus is to swap your bad pair for your neighbours good pair. Then when the neighbours complain Chorus swap the cable back. It's based on the plan that we will stop complaining in the end and Chorus can ignore the dilapidated cables round here.

Unfortunately it goes back further than Chorus, back to when network maintenance was performed in-house by Telecom employees. I live in an area powered off the Waimauku exchange, and talking to a Telecom employee that we got on well with back in the day, we were told, SOP was if there was a problem with one of the cable bundles to just cut around the problem, and use a different line to by-pass the problem, and sometimes (somehow - to this day I still have no idea how it'd happen, but this is what we were told) having the line running in the opposite direction of the exchange for a while. The number of Chorus vans we see running up and down the road today are quite telling.

I think there are a number of places that could do with fresh bundles of copper getting laid (especially those in RBI copper areas).

andynz

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#894761 12-Sep-2013 14:18

Yes it seems like there are many areas that need bringing up to acceptable standards.

But who is going to do it? Chorus has no incentive, they are a monopoly. They can set the standard (low in our case) and just keep charging the same. Built into that charge (or should be) is maintenance and rolling upgrades as cables deteriorate.

So if Chorus can do what they like and charge what they (as they do) what come back is there for the customer.

My experience is there is little you can do but expose the shoddy business that they are.

Choice in telecommunications in New Zealand is an illusion leading to world trailing standards.

NZCrusader

646 posts

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#894767 12-Sep-2013 14:40

My issue was different (old under provisioned cabinet, rendering speeds of less than 1 Mbps for 7am - 1am), but what was the same is that Chorus was extremely unpleasant to deal with.

I mentioned in another thread that they refused to advise what the actual problem was with the service, and just said anyone who didn’t like it, go jump on Vodafone RBI.

What we need is more lines companies so we can vote with our feet (so to say), or alternatively wireless services which can rival physical landlines in terms of cost and hopefully not too shabby speed either.

(My opinion)

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chevrolux

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#894776 12-Sep-2013 15:09

After endless efforts from myself, the ISP (FFM) and their backbone supplier, Chorus admitted the link was faulty...but had no plans to fix it. Oh well, the client will probably just accept it and we can carry on billing for the faulty service.

Unless you pay for a high grade service this is not out of the ordinary. It has to be a pretty major fault to get an overlay done. If it is minor they will do their bets to fix it. The ISP could keep submitting jobs but might get a bill from Chorus if they have already given resolution.

Chorus say it is just me that is complaining in the area. So rather than take their word, I thought I would find out. I posted on on our local residents Facebook page to see if anyone else has had any trouble...and the complaints came flooding in. There is acutally a whole bunch of people who complain but Chorus just don't want us to get together. Better us all thinking it is just us.

Chorus don't have a direct relationship with any of those people. If they are unhappy with their service they need to tell their ISP.

Chorus have put zero investment into improving the copper cables round here, they just patch them up and drop the ever increasing number of faulty pairs. A common trick of Chorus is to swap your bad pair for your neighbours good pair. Then when the neighbours complain Chorus swap the cable back. It's based on the plan that we will stop complaining in the end and Chorus can ignore the dilapidated cables round here.

If there is a massive fault with a cable it is more than likely going to get an overlay. If it is a decent distant from the exchange it will get a fibre overlay. No point in doing serious upgrades to a 50+ year old network when there is a brand new billion dollar fibre network being built. As for the 'common trick' you are referring to it is VERY far from common and only the worst of the worst might try this. Despite what you may think it is in the faultmans best interest to get it fixed up as they don't get paid for return visits.

Now in saying all of that, I am sort of on your side. Chorus pay on a per job basis. Meaning whether it takes 10 minutes or 10 hours they get paid the same. I can see why they do it this way, much easier to manage. But at the same time it puts undue stress on the fellas, who are already stressed enough, to get the job done. Often ending with untidy and unresolved work. You would think they would increase their rates over time, nope! They get lower.

Oh and I might add.... everyone complained when Telecom owned the network. But I tell you what, if you were a Telecom customer your faults sure as hell got fixed fast and properly! I guess this is all just another example of how awesome unbundling really is lol.

andynz

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#894779 12-Sep-2013 15:21

Thanks for your comments Chevrolux

"Unless you pay for a high grade service this is not out of the ordinary."
Like I said monopoly = worst standard possible with no consequences.

"The ISP could keep submitting jobs but might get a bill from Chorus if they have already given resolution."
If I back billed Chorus my time over this I could be rich too.

"Chorus don't have a direct relationship with any of those people. If they are unhappy with their service they need to tell their ISP. "
Perfect way of working. Provide a sub standard service and have no come back form the customers. As I have said, complaining to your ISP is a cop out, nothing happens.

"As for the 'common trick' you are referring to it is VERY far from common"
Perhaps you would like to pop round to Whenuapai and watch it in action.

"brand new billion dollar fibre network being built."
Not here there isn't. No roll out date and prohibitive cost to get it to our building if it ever did happen. What exactly is wrong with good VDSL for SMB and domestic?

Inphinity

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#894783 12-Sep-2013 15:28

andynz: "brand new billion dollar fibre network being built."
Not here there isn't. No roll out date and prohibitive cost to get it to our building if it ever did happen. What exactly is wrong with good VDSL for SMB and domestic?

I thought you said VDSL isn't available at your location? That would mean you're simply too far (cable wise) from the cabinet. They really can't magically make VDSL work further than it does, though it'd be great :(

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