Pre-empt VDSL Install

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TLD

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Topic # 157434 1-Dec-2014 13:57

I've booked a Spark VDSL installation, and would like to do what I can do ensure the best outcome.
I've also learned from another thread, that it is not safe to make assumptions around Broadband installations, so does this look like the master socket? It is sited in the garage, and is easily the nearest phone socket to where the Telecom box is sited on the outside wall. I note though, that the cables are looped down from the loft space, and back up again, which does seem completely right to me, unless the cable from the outside Telecom goes up the cavity to the loft and back down to this socket.

Can I usefully pre-empt the VDSL install by running Cat6 cable from this socket to the socket behind my computers, And should I offset the run to avoid the power cables in the power socket above the telephone socket? I'd do this on top of the Gib Board rather than try to pull it through the cavity.

Can you guys identify the existing cable from the image? It shows the initial installation as November 1999.

I've also found the modem stats on the HG360b. Using the divide by 13.1 formula. it puts me at 900m from the cabinet. If the cable came down my street, and straight off to the phone point, it would be 450m, so either the reading is wrong, or the cable takes a more roundabout route. My speed has remained at 7.4/.8 from day one.

Line standard ADSL2+ Channel type Interleaved Downstream line rate (kbit/s) 16319 Upstream line rate (kbit/s) 972 Downstream SNR (dB) 12.6 Upstream SNR (dB) 12.5 Downstream line attenuation (dB) 13.5 Upstream line attenuation (dB) 6.3 Downstream output power (dBmV) 18.9 Upstream output power (dBmV) 12.1 Downstream CRC 0 Upstream CRC 4 Downstream FEC 146 Upstream FEC 3014
I appreciate the help you've all given so far. Many thanks

Trevor Dennis
Rapaura (near Blenheim)

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Reply # 1186377 1-Dec-2014 13:57

Hello... Our robot found some keywords in your post, so here is an automated reply with some important things to note regarding broadband speeds.

If you are posting regarding DSL speeds please check that

- you have reset your modem and router

- your PC (or other PCs in your LAN) is not downloading large files when you are testing

- you are not being throttled by your ISP due to going over the monthly cap

- your tests are always done on an ethernet connection to the router - do not use wireless for testing

- you read this topic and follow the instructions there.

Make sure you provide information for other users to help you. If you have not already done it, please EDIT your post and add this now:

- Your ISP and plan

- Type of connection (ADSL, ADSL2, VDSL)

- Your modem DSL stats (do not worry about posting Speedtest, we need sync rate, attenuation and noise margin)

- Your general location (or street)

- If you are rural or urban

- If you know your connection is to an exchange, cabinet or conklin

- If your connection is to a ULL or wholesale service

- If you have done an isolation test as per the link above

Most of the problems with speed are likely to be related to internal wiring issues. Read this discussion to find out more about this. Your ISP is not intentionally slowing you down today (unless you are on a managed plan). Also if this is the school holidays it's likely you will notice slower than usual speed due to more users online.

A master splitter is required for VDSL2 and in most cases will improve speeds on DSL connections. Regular disconnections can be a monitored alarm or a set top box trying to connect. If there's an alarm connected to your line even if you don't have an alarm contract it may still try to connect so it's worth checking.

I recommend you read these two blog posts:

- Is your premises phone wiring impacting your broadband performance? (very technical)

- Are you receiving a substandard ULL ADSL2+ connection from your ISP?

I am the Geekzone Robot and I am here to help. I am from the Internet. I do not interact. Do not expect other replies from me.

InstallerUFB

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Reply # 1186392 1-Dec-2014 14:11

What you might have there is the first jackpoint - You might be geting confused between a Master spliter and what used to be the Master jack

Master jacks were fitted onto the house wireing between the mid 1980s and the late 1990s to provide a ringing circuit (expalanation not added) and this type of wireing is known a 3 wire - white, red & blue wires attached to the back of the jack. (we generaly remove the blue wire when cleaning up older wireing/jacks)

Your wireing apears to be 2 wire only (white & red wires) so it is unlikely to have a 'Master Jack' fitted

For VDSL A new Cat6 cable would generaly be run from the ETP (External Test Point) inot from what might be the first jackpoint.

TLD

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Reply # 1186410 1-Dec-2014 14:40

Thanks for the reply. What I'm guessing is the ETP has a tamper-proof cover, and is at floor level not far from the electric meter. This is on the corner of the house where I know power comes in. (We are rural and have no water or waste run to the property.)

So could I do the same thing as I suggested with the ETP as with the above socket. It's just that it feels like a big ask to expect the installer to crawl around in the loft space for $199!

Trevor Dennis
Rapaura (near Blenheim)

hsvhel

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Reply # 1186413 1-Dec-2014 14:46

4 people support this post

TLD: Thanks for the reply. What I'm guessing is the ETP has a tamper-proof cover, and is at floor level not far from the electric meter. This is on the corner of the house where I know power comes in. (We are rural and have no water or waste run to the property.)

So could I do the same thing as I suggested with the ETP as with the above socket. It's just that it feels like a big ask to expect the installer to crawl around in the loft space for $199!

It's just that it feels like a big ask to expect the installer to crawl around in the loft space for $199

You might be the perfect customer!

InstallerUFB

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Reply # 1186500 1-Dec-2014 17:45

TLD: Thanks for the reply. What I'm guessing is the ETP has a tamper-proof cover, and is at floor level not far from the electric meter. This is on the corner of the house where I know power comes in. (We are rural and have no water or waste run to the property.)

So could I do the same thing as I suggested with the ETP as with the above socket. It's just that it feels like a big ask to expect the installer to crawl around in the loft space for $199!

Yep that sounds like the ETP ( about 50mm square - probably has telecom molded on the lid and has 4 tri-screws) - yes you could do the same there with some Cat6 (then on to your VDSL jck location) - I would think that this has been prewired (the internal phone cableing) down the wall close to were this box is mounted on the outside - if your not sure about this bit leave it for the installers.

hio77

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Reply # 1186506 1-Dec-2014 17:52

hsvhel:
TLD: Thanks for the reply. What I'm guessing is the ETP has a tamper-proof cover, and is at floor level not far from the electric meter. This is on the corner of the house where I know power comes in. (We are rural and have no water or waste run to the property.)

So could I do the same thing as I suggested with the ETP as with the above socket. It's just that it feels like a big ask to expect the installer to crawl around in the loft space for $199!

It's just that it feels like a big ask to expect the installer to crawl around in the loft space for $199

You might be the perfect customer!

This.

Pretty sure spark do full VDSL installations dont they?

So you would already be due for an splitter installation and such.

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Any comments made are personal opinion and do not reflect directly on the position my current or past employers may have.

phantomdb

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Reply # 1186517 1-Dec-2014 18:00

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Spark DO full vdsl installs as they are required to have a quality of service, im an alarm tech and was questioning chrous about it.
this also becomes an issue if they dont do a proper install and you have line dropouts due to bad signal to noise ratio which will equate to slow download speeds.

leave the tech to do it properly thats what hes paid for, at a bare minimum you could run a draw cord down the wall to pull the new cat6 cable.............

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phantomdb

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Reply # 1186537 1-Dec-2014 18:25

Also see this gz post http://www.geekzone.co.nz/forums.asp?forumid=90&topicid=157407&page_no=1#1186503

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TLD

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Reply # 1187319 2-Dec-2014 18:51

I booked the VDSL through the Spark website form on Friday or Saturday, and not having received a confirmation email, I phoned today and of course, they had no record. So I booked it again on the phone, and the installer will be here on Monday, which is nice.

But while I had their attention, I got them to pass me on to Engineering and asked about my ADSL2 speeds. They also thought they were low, but I'm getting a near identical 7.4/.8 on two hard wired computers, a laptop via WiFi, and an iPad app. I've tried disconnecting all phone jacks and the other computer, but always get the same result. One thing did change after the call: the Downstream line rate in the HG630b stats went from 16k to 18k, and shortly after, to its current 19038, but my speeds remain unaltered.

Do these stats suggest a problem at my end?

Line standard__________________ADSL2+
Channel type___________________Interleaved
Downstream line rate (kbit/s)______19038
Upstream line rate (kbit/s)_________996
Downstream SNR (dB)____________12.1
Upstream SNR (dB)______________13
Downstream line attenuation (dB)___13.5
Upstream line attenuation (dB)______6.3
Downstream output power (dBmV)__18.9
Upstream output power (dBmV)____12.2
Downstream CRC________________0
Upstream CRC__________________0
Downstream FEC________________696
Upstream FEC__________________472

It's not life or death with the VDSL coming next week, unless a similar problem will roll over to the VDSL connection.

Once again, thanks for your help.

Oh, BTW. I was DSE today and saw this beautiful red cat6 cable for $1, and I am so itching to lay some between computer point and somewhere near the ETP. The only reason I resisted was advice from here to let the install guys do their job, but I mean... This cable was bright red, and kind of shiny :-)

[EDIT] to fix the messed up table.

Trevor Dennis
Rapaura (near Blenheim)

hio77

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Reply # 1187325 2-Dec-2014 18:54

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Okay. so your syncing at 19mbit there, your getting adsl 2 speeds.

the fact that your only seeing 7.4 sounds like iver, wireless interference (clearly not the case as you have stated testing with hardwired) or some profiling on sparks side.

Considering your install is due soon, ild not worry about it and let the move to VDSL be your only profile move on sparks side.

Checking back on your stats in your first post, it seems that was missed on first glance.

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Any comments made are personal opinion and do not reflect directly on the position my current or past employers may have.

TLD

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Reply # 1187326 2-Dec-2014 18:58

A double thanks for that response, because you unraveled the messed up table before I went back in reformated it.

I have a job number, so I'll get back on to Engineering. If it is a profile thing, then no worries because that will supposedly be irrelevant after the VDSL goes live?

Trevor Dennis
Rapaura (near Blenheim)

hio77

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Reply # 1187327 2-Dec-2014 19:01

TLD: A double thanks for that response, because you unraveled the messed up table before I went back in reformated it.

I have a job number, so I'll get back on to Engineering. If it is a profile thing, then no worries because that will supposedly be irrelevant after the VDSL goes live?

Ill see if i cant dig one up, but at one point, there were pretty common Threads from spark users who would see adsl2 speeds until the profile change happeend on sparks side.

My suspicion is that spark had had the same thing on your line, but to an adsl1 profile, which would make sense given your otherwise perfect looking line stats.

You went to the effort of cleaning up your stats, many dont! its a pretty common occurrence! The worst are the Vodafone modems inwhich Totally break geekzone when pasted directly.

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RunningMan

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Reply # 1187334 2-Dec-2014 19:10

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A couple of (unrelated) things stand out to me

1) The 13.5 downstream attenuation. 10.8dB downstream under ADSL used to be the maximum for VDSL to be installed, as over this resulted in far reduced performance. You may be lucky though, as your downstream sync rate is very good for the attenuation.

2) The FEC errors. Without knowing how long they have been counting for, you can't tell if there is lots or only a few, but that's an indication there is some sort of interference or similar that will cause retransmission of packets, and the reduced throughput you are seeing. This may well be a physical wiring issue (corrosion etc) that will be remedied upon VDSL install, so I wouldn't be too worried about it in the short term.

TLD

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Reply # 1187375 2-Dec-2014 19:39

I had looked for the earlier stats, but missed them because I had not realised the table broke on posting. These are they:

Line standard______________________ADSL2+
Channel type ______________________Interleaved
Downstream line rate (kbit/s)__________16319
Upstream line rate (kbit/s) ____________972
Downstream SNR (dB)_______________12.6
Upstream SNR (dB) _________________12.5
Downstream line attenuation (dB)______13.5
Upstream line attenuation (dB)________ 6.3
Downstream output power (dBmV)_____18.9
Upstream output power (dBmV) _______12.1
Downstream CRC___________________0
Upstream CRC _____________________4
Downstream FEC___________________146
Upstream FEC _____________________3014

The Downstream line attn had worried me because I'm only 400m from the cabinet, so unless the phone cable goes down one side of the close, and back up to my side, that seems strangely high. I can't believe the phone cable takes so circuitous a route because there are other properties behind me — I wouldn't make sense.

I had to Google the FEC (Forward Error Correction) but came out not much the wiser. I'm guessing that there's no point in worrying until after the splitter and dedicated cable goes in next week.

Trevor Dennis
Rapaura (near Blenheim)

RunningMan

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Reply # 1187381 2-Dec-2014 19:48

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TLD:

The Downstream line attn had worried me because I'm only 400m from the cabinet, so unless the phone cable goes down one side of the close, and back up to my side, that seems strangely high. I can't believe the phone cable takes so circuitous a route because there are other properties behind me — I wouldn't make sense.

That's probably exactly what it does. It can often loop down and back up each side street.

TLD:I had to Google the FEC (Forward Error Correction) but came out not much the wiser. I'm guessing that there's no point in worrying until after the splitter and dedicated cable goes in next week.

With so many on the upstream, there's probably a corroded connection on one wire somewhere - wouldn't worry as the VDSL install will likely address it, but keep an eye out for problems after the install just in case

EDIT: spelling

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