vdsl 12a/12b

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mercutio

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#175668 7-Jul-2015 18:58

given that chorus are dynamically setting profiles, is there any reason that there isn't 12a/12b as well as 17a/8b? it seems to be that it'd go a way with reaching better speeds for a lot of users.

even better if they can stop limiting upload speeds so aggressively. so something like 17a for short lines, 12a(12b?) for medium, 8b for long.

unfortunately because i'm on 8b i can't see what snr is - but it's staying high right to the end of 8b with lowered transmit power like 17a/12a. (well 42db, high enough..) so i figure it should go at least close to a significant drop off? and it's not much higher at adsl frequencies than that - jumping up just before adsl frequencies are finishing... (tone 509)

12a wouldn't improve download speeds so much as improving upload speeds. which means that users in areas that don't get fibre anytime soon could get 20 megabit up or such easily if chorus uncapped.

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#1338825 7-Jul-2015 18:58

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johnr

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#1338839 7-Jul-2015 19:08

Quality / Age of the copper is part of the issue this has been spoken about in a few threads already

mercutio

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#1338841 7-Jul-2015 19:09

johnr: Quality / Age of the copper is part of the issue

that's what's been said various times, but cat3 can run 100 megabit fine often in practice even if cat5 is recommended. the main concern seems to be crosstalk, but with the current capping to 70 megabit etc then 12a shouldn't impact 17a profiles that much etc. with all of the error correction, dynamic management of tones etc it's lower risk than 100 megabit ethernet over cat3 surely?

also even in areas where copper quality is bad connections often sync way better after power outages with snr and work fine. snr is another artifical cap which matters especially 6+km from exchange on extra-thin cable. although cabinets make things a LOT better :)

johnr

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#1338842 7-Jul-2015 19:13

The copper that runs up and down the streets is the issue not from the road to the house

sbiddle

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#1338843 7-Jul-2015 19:13

Chorus are removing the upload restrictions when they move from 997 to 998

mercutio

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#1338844 7-Jul-2015 19:14

johnr: The copper that runs up and down the streets is the issue not from the road to the house

isn't that just about finding a good pair though?

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mercutio

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#1338845 7-Jul-2015 19:14

sbiddle: Chorus are removing the upload restrictions when they move from 997 to 998

any idea if they'll add 12a, 6db snr margin etc type profiles? and is there any way to get in as a test user on this? :)

johnr

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#1338846 7-Jul-2015 19:15

mercutio:
johnr: The copper that runs up and down the streets is the issue not from the road to the house

isn't that just about finding a good pair though?

So how do all customers get a good pair?

mercutio

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#1338848 7-Jul-2015 19:16

johnr:
mercutio:
johnr: The copper that runs up and down the streets is the issue not from the road to the house

isn't that just about finding a good pair though?

So how do all customers get a good pair?

well most areas have like twice as many as needed? i suppose it just means they test each pair until they find one that's good.

johnr

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#1338850 7-Jul-2015 19:21

Who pays for the time for a best effort service and what happens if they can't find a good pair?

mercutio

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#1338851 7-Jul-2015 19:21

this is where i found some good information on the various vdsl profiles btw:

http://yadda.icm.edu.pl/yadda/element/bwmeta1.element.baztech-article-BATA-0019-0023/c/Heliotis.pdf

Dyson

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mercutio

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#1338852 7-Jul-2015 19:22

johnr: Who pays for the time for a best effort service and what happens if they can't find a good pair?

well they have to anyway for adsl? a lot of the worst areas for copper are also the areas that aren't getting ufb... so the problem isn't going away.

like for instance laingholm has pretty bad copper, and used to go all the way back to titirangi... so with cabinets it's like 1 or 2km ... but they still have pretty iffy copper, and is an area where a lot of people like to work from home and out of ufb area.

most of the destined for ufb areas have cabinets a lot closer though. and so things like 12a could still work well there. and give 20 megabit upload etc.

hio77

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#1338859 7-Jul-2015 19:30

in theory, 12a/b profiles would be a good idea to lower crosstalk a tad.

but i doubt it would happen.

ild love to see G.INP/G998.4 put into use too however... Probably would never happen aswell.

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johnr

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#1338861 7-Jul-2015 19:31

It's still a best effort service / speed line can handle clearly they are going to replace the copper lines

phantomdb

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#1340167 9-Jul-2015 19:03

johnr: It's still a best effort service / speed line can handle clearly they are going to replace the copper lines

Bit of a shame payment for the "Best Effort Service" is not best effort also.........

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