Geekzone: technology news, blogs, forums
Guest
Welcome Guest.
You haven't logged in yet. If you don't have an account you can register now.




5 posts

Wannabe Geek


#269937 15-Apr-2020 21:14
Send private message quote this post

I have recently been looking at network options in my rural residential, and after months of trying to contact someone at Chorus, our ISP came back with the following quote in terms of a fibre installation.

 

 

 

1: Cost of Build work: $142,640.21                        

 

2: Consigned Material cost: $35,660.05                

 

3: GST value (15% of 1&2): $26,745.04                 

 

4: Total cost to customer including GST: $205,045.30

 

 

 

Does this seem like a fair estimate for a house that is only 1.2km out of fibre range? Chorus's justification was that the junction cable running along the main road is full and unable to be tapped into, and that they would have to trench to where their UFB build has ended. In their plans, the materials and installations include wire, a turning pit and a chamber. Does anyone know how any of this is actually calculated? Why am I paying $35,660 (not incl.) for fibre wire?

 

Not even mentioning the fact that a Chorus engineer himself said it would be an easy installation and probably around 20-30k when we were buying the house (in all fairness, he probably wasn't aware of the junction cable usage). Perhaps someone who works in the industry would have a better knowledge of where my money is going opposed to me, but roughly 1000 dollars per meter (not including gst and material cost) seems a bit out of proportion.

 

Edit: I should probably add that I'm ineligible for VDSL.


View this topic in a long page with up to 500 replies per page Create new topic
 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5
9742 posts

Uber Geek

Lifetime subscriber

  #2462178 15-Apr-2020 21:28
Send private message quote this post

your likely paying for equipment to be installed in the exchange too, because the current allocation of equipment wont have space for you.

 

your also paying for traffic control safety management plan etc which is required for health and safety. Council consent etc that's required to dig next to the road, the list goes on.


'That VDSL Cat'
12361 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted
Spark
Subscriber

  #2462182 15-Apr-2020 21:34
Send private message quote this post

when chorus do this, they don't just hand out a fibre and go ok done, they do a full installation of a Fibre pit, run all the conduit to it etc for customers.

 

there will also be some supplementation of the physical exchange equipment in there. 

 

 

 

if you do indeed have the full plans, then they will paint a pretty clear picture.

 

i will admit that's one of the higher costs i've seen but it may actually not be too far of the actual cost.





#include <std_disclaimer>

 

Any comments made are personal opinion and do not reflect directly on the position my current or past employers may have.

 


 
 
 
 




5 posts

Wannabe Geek


  #2462186 15-Apr-2020 21:43
Send private message quote this post

hio77:

 

when chorus do this, they don't just hand out a fibre and go ok done, they do a full installation of a Fibre pit, run all the conduit to it etc for customers.

 

there will also be some supplementation of the physical exchange equipment in there. 

 

 

 

if you do indeed have the full plans, then they will paint a pretty clear picture.

 

i will admit that's one of the higher costs i've seen but it may actually not be too far of the actual cost.

 

 

 

 

Jase2985:

 

your likely paying for equipment to be installed in the exchange too, because the current allocation of equipment wont have space for you.

 

 

 

 

That justifies the material cost, as they are creating 3 17x30" pits. What confuses me is why there is the substantial amount of 140k for labour. 


4546 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

  #2462191 15-Apr-2020 22:09
Send private message quote this post

Because the labour rate is fairly high. Plus they sub the vast majority of the work out.

BUT, it's not exactly "easy" work, and requires significant investment in civil plant. So it's easy to understand how the labour cost gets up so fast

Edit: Fact is, if solid telco networks were easy to build, everyone would be doing it. And I dont see anyone else jumping in their diggers and ripping in fibre all over the place.

552 posts

Ultimate Geek

Subscriber

  #2462208 15-Apr-2020 22:55
Send private message quote this post

Any WISP in the area? or are you within 1Km line of sight to someone with fibre?

These are much cheaper ways of doing this...



5 posts

Wannabe Geek


  #2462215 15-Apr-2020 23:08
Send private message quote this post

chevrolux: Because the labour rate is fairly high. Plus they sub the vast majority of the work out.

BUT, it's not exactly "easy" work, and requires significant investment in civil plant. So it's easy to understand how the labour cost gets up so fast

Edit: Fact is, if solid telco networks were easy to build, everyone would be doing it. And I dont see anyone else jumping in their diggers and ripping in fibre all over the place.


No they wouldn’t, because companies have to bid on their role in providing fibre

276 posts

Ultimate Geek


  #2462217 15-Apr-2020 23:10
Send private message quote this post

chevrolux Edit: Fact is, if solid telco networks were easy to build, everyone would be doing it. And I dont see anyone else jumping in their diggers and ripping in fibre all over the place.

 

Across private land it’s easy and cheap to run fibre, get into the road reserve and it becomes administratively and financially very complicated, even excluding the connection/equipment side of things. Traffic management, permissions, liability, vehicle crossings etc.

 

Plus here you’re getting the “one off price” syndrome, which someone putting in a power connection will be familiar with, as opposed, for example, to something like the UFB where a whole network is built at once and you get economy of scale and competitive quoting.


 
 
 
 




5 posts

Wannabe Geek


  #2462218 15-Apr-2020 23:18
Send private message quote this post

nztim: Any WISP in the area? or are you within 1Km line of sight to someone with fibre?

These are much cheaper ways of doing this...


No WISP, no LOS. I am 1.2km down a hilly road. Don’t know if you strictly mean line of sight, but I’m 140 houses down from the next address with fibre

3600 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

  #2462224 15-Apr-2020 23:54
Send private message quote this post

For that price lease small pieces of land to setup wireless repeating stations back to your house lol. Maybe if you are willing to pay that much a WISP would do that process for you?





Speedtest 2019-10-14


1001 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted
Chorus

  #2462232 16-Apr-2020 02:09
Send private message quote this post

It's worth pointing out that unless you have actually placed an order, the figure provided to you by your RSP will likely be an estimate only, based for the most part on a desktop scope conducted by a network planner. In my experience, some estimates are very close to the final quote and some are not.

 

To give you an example, I recently assisted an end user in the Coatesville area who wanted fibre to his new house. The estimate was circa $100k + gst which he was relatively happy with, so he proceeded to place an order to trigger the full design & quote process. As part of that, the network designers are actually sent out into the field to do proper measurements and work out precisely what materials and extent of labour are required to complete the job. In this example, the firm quote came in at circa $75k + gst... that's quite a difference.

 

I'm not saying this sort of wild variation will happen in your case, but it does happen. Chorus calculates these types of jobs on a cost recovery basis only - we don't add a margin so the cost provided on the quote really is what it costs Chorus to get the work done.

 

If you haven't placed a provisioning order with your RSP, all you will have been given so far is a rough estimate, however I can confirm either way if the OP flicks me a message with the address.

 

As others have alluded to, the term "labour" covers a myriad of things including (but not limited to) designer fees, council consent applications, NZTA permissions, traffic management, equipment hire, sub sub contractor costs, arborist reports for trees where the fibre is buried under the drip-line of those trees, road/footpath reinstatement, splicing, pit installation, and so it goes on.

 

As for phrases like "but I stopped a technician as he was driving past in his Chorus van, and he told me that it would be a simple job and shouldn't cost more than $x" - if I had a dollar for every time I've heard that or a similar line, I wouldn't be retired, but I'd have a few hundred bucks at least. Field technicians aren't network planners, designers or quantity surveyors - they simply do their job and claim payment for their time using cost codes, so they really don't have first hand knowledge of what the supply and installation of any particular network element really costs.

 

Oh by the way, the example I provided above was for a network extension of around 500-600 metres from memory. So double the distance and the price provided to you is probably not too far off (all other things being equal).





The views expressed by me are not necessarily those of my employer Chorus NZ Ltd


9742 posts

Uber Geek

Lifetime subscriber

  #2462242 16-Apr-2020 07:14
Send private message quote this post

lkj509:

 

What confuses me is why there is the substantial amount of 140k for labour. 

 

 

where does it say labour on the info you provided? says cost of build work.


4546 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

  #2462247 16-Apr-2020 07:57
Send private message quote this post

Lastman:

chevrolux Edit: Fact is, if solid telco networks were easy to build, everyone would be doing it. And I dont see anyone else jumping in their diggers and ripping in fibre all over the place.


Across private land it’s easy and cheap to run fibre, get into the road reserve and it becomes administratively and financially very complicated, even excluding the connection/equipment side of things. Traffic management, permissions, liability, vehicle crossings etc.


Plus here you’re getting the “one off price” syndrome, which someone putting in a power connection will be familiar with, as opposed, for example, to something like the UFB where a whole network is built at once and you get economy of scale and competitive quoting.



So why isnt every rural landowner just trenching in their own fibre on private land and getting connected....
Because it's about waaaaay more than just a cable!!

Source: I work for a company who builds large scale telco infrastructure. I.e. UFB builds and backhaul cables

4546 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

  #2462249 16-Apr-2020 08:01
Send private message quote this post

lkj509:
chevrolux: Because the labour rate is fairly high. Plus they sub the vast majority of the work out.

BUT, it's not exactly "easy" work, and requires significant investment in civil plant. So it's easy to understand how the labour cost gets up so fast

Edit: Fact is, if solid telco networks were easy to build, everyone would be doing it. And I dont see anyone else jumping in their diggers and ripping in fibre all over the place.


No they wouldn’t, because companies have to bid on their role in providing fibre


Nope. Anyone can build a fibre network in NZ... they just dont because the economics of doing it are pretty sucky. A few companies got in early and have done well (Inspire Net for example). But note A FEW being the key words there.

72 posts

Master Geek


  #2463268 16-Apr-2020 09:34
Send private message quote this post

Do not do it.

 

It seems to me that you are being asked to stump up with the cost of works that may ultimately be shared by many users both along the added path to your place and future loads beyond which could be significant network extensions.  

 

 

 

They are having you on.  


4546 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

  #2463270 16-Apr-2020 09:37
Send private message quote this post

GGJohnstone:

 

Do not do it.

 

It seems to me that you are being asked to stump up with the cost of works that may ultimately be shared by many users both along the added path to your place and future loads beyond which could be significant network extensions.  

 

They are having you on.  

 

 

But there is no way to tell if this "extension" will get used by other properties. So Chorus have to assume just one user is going to use the network.

 

It's no different to how power companies approach rural installations.


 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5
View this topic in a long page with up to 500 replies per page Create new topic





Twitter and LinkedIn »



Follow us to receive Twitter updates when new discussions are posted in our forums:



Follow us to receive Twitter updates when news items and blogs are posted in our frontpage:



Follow us to receive Twitter updates when tech item prices are listed in our price comparison site:





News »

Soul Machines joins forces with the World Health Organization
Posted 13-Jul-2020 18:00


Chorus completes the build and commissioning of two new core Ethernet switches
Posted 8-Jul-2020 09:48


National Institute for Health Innovation develops treatment app for gambling
Posted 6-Jul-2020 16:25


Nokia 2.3 to be available in New Zealand
Posted 6-Jul-2020 12:30


Menulog change colours as parent company merges with Dutch food delivery service
Posted 2-Jul-2020 07:53


Techweek2020 goes digital to make it easier for Kiwis to connect and learn
Posted 2-Jul-2020 07:48


Catalyst Cloud launches new Solutions Hub to support their kiwi Partners and Customers
Posted 2-Jul-2020 07:44


Microsoft to help New Zealand job seekers acquire new digital skills needed for the COVID-19 economy
Posted 2-Jul-2020 07:41


Hewlett Packard Enterprise introduces new HPE GreenLake cloud services
Posted 24-Jun-2020 08:07


New cloud data protection services from Hewlett Packard Enterprise
Posted 24-Jun-2020 07:58


Hewlett Packard Enterprise unveils HPE Ezmeral, new software portfolio and brand
Posted 24-Jun-2020 07:10


Apple reveals new developer technologies to foster the next generation of apps
Posted 23-Jun-2020 15:30


Poly introduces solutions for Microsoft Teams Rooms
Posted 23-Jun-2020 15:14


Lenovo launches new ThinkPad P Series mobile workstations
Posted 23-Jun-2020 09:17


Lenovo brings Linux certification to ThinkPad and ThinkStation Workstation portfolio
Posted 23-Jun-2020 08:56



Geekzone Live »

Try automatic live updates from Geekzone directly in your browser, without refreshing the page, with Geekzone Live now.


Support Geekzone »

Our community of supporters help make Geekzone possible. Click the button below to join them.

Support Geezone on PressPatron



Are you subscribed to our RSS feed? You can download the latest headlines and summaries from our stories directly to your computer or smartphone by using a feed reader.

Alternatively, you can receive a daily email with Geekzone updates.