YouTube in NZ isn't the same as Googles YouTube

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hellonearthisman

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#59763 12-Apr-2010 10:29

Back in Sunday, June 14, 2009, google released this message.

Try to go to a YouTube video, wait until the video is buffered and then reload the page. You'll notice that the video starts instantly and you can watch it directly from your browser's cache. This works even if you close the tab and open the same page later.

No, that doesn't happen in NZ because of ISP caching, everytime it will download another copy of the same clip, great for the ISP as they get to sell you the same bits again.

Do others get this same problem?

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#317251 12-Apr-2010 10:34

Yeah... Because I'm with TCL and can't stream YouTube I tend to open a browser session specifically for YouTube vids and let them all buffer before I view them. Then sometimes I'll accidentally close the browser window and have to start from scratch... Argh! I didn't realise other countries had it any different...

simon14

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#317259 12-Apr-2010 10:50

I'm pretty sure Slingshot cache youtube videos, so a lot of them load really fast.

michaeln

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#317262 12-Apr-2010 11:16

Note it says your browser's cache. Your ISP isn't affecting your browser's cache. If you've downloaded something and playing it again doesn't run from your browser's cache, that's not the ISP, that's something on the PC.

Any cache that the ISP might be offering is completely independent.

Now, caching Youtube turns out to be difficult. When you load a Youtube URL, e.g. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZOU8GIRUd_g, that 'noise string' at the end is the page, not the video. The video is somewhere else, and the URL that it uses is dynamic (Youtube used it to dynamically load-balance over their servers). This makes caching the video somewhat tricky (though not impossible).

Then, Google provide content acceleration to some ISPs as a service. Google, now owners of Youtube, have the extra information that allows them to do this for Youtube.

BartManGeek

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#317270 12-Apr-2010 11:49

Firefox + downloadhelper adds a little logo next to title of youtube vid - click the logo and close the yt session, video is downloaded in the background, never open again in YT.

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hellonearthisman

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#317273 12-Apr-2010 11:56

I am with Slingshot, So I turned the ISP cache OFF (Slingshot are cool like that).
Now The local caching of youtube videos works (again).
If I close my browser (FF/Chrome) it will flush the cache but it's their if I open a new tab and copy the url of a clip that has recently been buffered or watched on twitter and clicked to view on youtube.

I think the Orcon cache is broken and charging users more than they should be by send the video clips more than necessary.

insane

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#317581 13-Apr-2010 00:36

hellonearthisman:
I think the Orcon cache is broken and charging users more than they should be by send the video clips more than necessary.

Am I missing something... that's the whole purpose of the cache. i.e it brings the content closer to you so you don't have to download it from the original source. The cache is there to save Orcon bandwidth, not the user, and to allow fluid streaming of even HD content.

My ISP piggy backs off the Orcon cache and I haven't noticed any issues with it. The only thing some may feel is as issue is where *some* less popular videos get purged from the cache fairly quickly and need to be re-downloaded from the original source. Perhaps this is what you were talking about which would mean the cache needs to be larger.

Hopefully 'soundedude' finds this post and can comment on it for us.

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Damager

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#317584 13-Apr-2010 00:49

I read somewhere else on GZ, that if you hit a YT page and then after say3 seconds, hit the back button and go forward again, it will cache very very quickly and I can then watch the video without pausing.

This worked for me and I now do this on all videos I watch. I recently downloaded Chrome and this technique doesnt work. Firefox however gives me the above result pretty much every time.

Now from the OP, I have watched a video on YT, closed it and or reloaded it a few minutes later and it has been fully cached to my surprise. This doesnt happen all the time though. I wonder if perhaps there is a time limit where after x minutes, if you try and reload a video you've already seen, it will download again from YT. Not sure if this is ISP/Google/YT related or just my own pc holding the video for a while.

Some of my observations.

- Telstra HTC Touch Pro2 - Energy ROM WM6.5.5 20 Oct/Cyanogen Mod Froyo 2.2 - R.I.P
- AT&T Galaxy S Captivate 16GB on XT (now with brother)
- Samsung Galaxy S2 on XT- Runs ICS 4.0.3 Resurrection Remix 9.2
- Business Hours - Work In The Electricity Industry, After Hours - DJ/Turntablist - Will Scratch Vinyl For Free'
- What's next??? S3?

insane

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#317586 13-Apr-2010 00:52

In FF under advanced options you can set the cache size. Some HD videos are rather large so perhaps they don't fit in the default 50MB local cache.

Damager

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#317587 13-Apr-2010 01:10

My own HD upload to YT is 10 minutes, recorded in Full HD @ 29Mb/s. I downsized it to 1440 x 1080 @ 10Mb/s. The result was 800 megs and took 1 hour 40 minutes to upload.

I try and encourage everyone to watch in 1080, however it does take a while to load up and of course, depending on the time of day/night, that can make a difference also to how quickly it caches to your pc.

I read that a Full HD video at 1920 x 1080 streams at 5Mb/s which would challenge most peoples connection I would guess. Being that mine is not quite Full HD, perhaps that might come down to 3 or 4 Mb/s.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5-LtLUfXDXU

insane

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#317988 13-Apr-2010 19:12

Interesting, the first time I downloaded that it came down at 7Mbps+ . Closed FF and then opened the same video again and it was capped at 2mbps, but still managed to keep up without buffering.

youtube 1080i

hellonearthisman

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#318037 13-Apr-2010 20:41

My point is, if you use the cache your are paying for more data than you would with the cache off, Because google tells your browser how to cache the data and when the ISP cache the same data it doesn't contain the same browser information on how to cache it.

Example of your data cap wasted, you watch a video on a blog, then click through to youtube to watch it again. Cache on Bills you for a 2nd copy of the data. Cache off data is reloaded from the bowsers cache.

The ISP cache is degrading googles youtube services at the expense of the users.
Isn't that wrong?

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wazzageek

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#318103 13-Apr-2010 21:59

hellonearthisman: My point is, if you use the cache your are paying for more data than you would with the cache off, Because google tells your browser how to cache the data and when the ISP cache the same data it doesn't contain the same browser information on how to cache it.

Example of your data cap wasted, you watch a video on a blog, then click through to youtube to watch it again. Cache on Bills you for a 2nd copy of the data. Cache off data is reloaded from the bowsers cache.

If your browser is truly caching the video, then the ISP will never see the traffic and will be unable to bill you for it.

This is a good reason why those that insist on e-mailing data from one machine to another inside the same office benefit from having a mail server locally (the data doesn't traverse into the ISP's network.)

You pay for the data flowing on "the pipes" from your ISP to your equipment. Point of origin is irrelevant (unless you are charged differently for national / international)

If the same video is being sourced from the same location in each instance AND your browser is competently caching said video, then you will not be charged twice.

The ISP cache is degrading googles youtube services at the expense of the users.
Isn't that wrong?

That's a blanket statement - is the ISP cache really degrading the service? If that's the case, then you need to lodge a service ticket with your ISP to get that investigated.

NonprayingMantis

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#318109 13-Apr-2010 22:05

hellonearthisman: Back in Sunday, June 14, 2009, google released this message.

Try to go to a YouTube video, wait until the video is buffered and then reload the page. You'll notice that the video starts instantly and you can watch it directly from your browser's cache. This works even if you close the tab and open the same page later.

No, that doesn't happen in NZ because of ISP caching, everytime it will download another copy of the same clip, great for the ISP as they get to sell you the same bits again.

Do others get this same problem?

not me. (I'm on Telecom, Big Time plan)

I do exactly what that says (refresh the page) and find that the video then downloads incredibly fast - much faster than I can watch it.

works every time have tried it.

Ragnor

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#318151 14-Apr-2010 01:17

Probably to do with cache control headers on the http requests. Might compare them later.

hellonearthisman

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#328642 10-May-2010 18:09

I mentioned this on http://computerworld.co.nz/news.nsf/fryup/fryup-three-of-the-best about how the Orcon cache is breaking youtube. And they are still doing it.

If I watch a YouTube clip in my browser and then open a new tab, paste in the same URL, I get sent another copy of the video when it should use the copy I have in my browsers cache.

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