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Topic # 189436 30-Dec-2015 07:00
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Thank you to all the knowledgeable folks on this web site – always good advice and good arguments.

I have inherited (literally) a Thomson ST5x6v6 broadband connected ADSL modem which was LAN connected to a single laptop. I also inherited the house! and have wired it with Cat6 cables and network switches to supply a variety of HTPC devices, NAS etc etc.

I pressed an old D-Link wifi router into service to provide a connection to iPhones and hooked it all into ST5. The ST5 is set to host DHCP on 192.168.1.254 - the internet is fast and responsive on any connected device. 

The Problem: using Windows 10, Network Discovery will not work reliably, if at all, on the local LAN – 192.168.1.nnn. All connected devices receive their DHCP IP from the ST5 but calls to and from local devices are very slow to initiate and occasionally drop out altogether. Ping and IP addressing of devices work although timeouts are more the norm.

Once established, LAN xfer is as expected even at GB speeds – but only for the current access, reverting back after completion.

I setup the D-Link WiFi router to provide DHCP hosting, and disabled the ST5 DHCP. Network Discovery immediately operated as it should, showing all local devices within a few seconds and allowing normal LAN operation (file Xfer, web hosting …). 

I left the ST5 on 192.168.1.254, and connected it into a switch – no internet access now.

I then put the ST5 into the WAN port on the WiFi router. The router connected the ST5 in on the address 10.0.0.138 and provided Sparks? DNS server IPs to the router – still no internet.

In one particular configuration, I did see the laptop LAN adapter configured with the DNS server addresses…

I am of the opinion that with the ST5 hosting DHCP, Network Discovery protocols and local LAN calls are being routed via Spark’s DNS servers and getting mangled along the way?  But I am not knowledgeable enough to confirm that and I’ve gone to my limits with T & E! Thanks for any advice …

pjay 

ST5 Addressing…



D-Link Router – WAN Connection – this was obtained automatically by the router


D-Link Routing


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  Reply # 1458833 30-Dec-2015 07:00
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Hello... Our robot found some keywords in your post, so here is an automated reply with some important things to note regarding broadband speeds.

 



 

If you are posting regarding DSL speeds please check that

 



 

- you have reset your modem and router

 


 

- your PC (or other PCs in your LAN) is not downloading large files when you are testing

 

- you are not being throttled by your ISP due to going over the monthly cap

 


 

- your tests are always done on an ethernet connection to the router - do not use wireless for testing

 


 

- you read this topic and follow the instructions there.

 



 

Make sure you provide information for other users to help you. If you have not already done it, please EDIT your post and add this now:

 



 

- Your ISP and plan

 


 

- Type of connection (ADSL, ADSL2, VDSL)

 


 

- Your modem DSL stats (do not worry about posting Speedtest, we need sync rate, attenuation and noise margin)

 


 

- Your general location (or street)

 


 

- If you are rural or urban

 


 

- If you know your connection is to an exchange, cabinet or conklin

 


 

- If your connection is to a ULL or wholesale service

 


 

- If you have done an isolation test as per the link above

 



 

Most of the problems with speed are likely to be related to internal wiring issues. Read this discussion to find out more about this. Your ISP is not intentionally slowing you down today (unless you are on a managed plan). Also if this is the school holidays it's likely you will notice slower than usual speed due to more users online.

 



 

A master splitter is required for VDSL2 and in most cases will improve speeds on DSL connections. Regular disconnections can be a monitored alarm or a set top box trying to connect. If there's an alarm connected to your line even if you don't have an alarm contract it may still try to connect so it's worth checking.

 



 

I recommend you read these two blog posts:

 



 

- Is your premises phone wiring impacting your broadband performance? (very technical)

 


 

- Are you receiving a substandard ULL ADSL2+ connection from your ISP?




I am the Geekzone Robot and I am here to help. I am from the Internet. I do not interact. Do not expect other replies from me.



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  Reply # 1458843 30-Dec-2015 07:19
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Interesting question, I don't have an answer sorry. By "Network Discovery" what exactly do you mean? Getting an IP from DCHP, finding other computers in Windows networking, etc? Basically, can you describe the problem a bit better? Suggest you edit your first post so people have all the info there, and post below if you do.




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  Reply # 1459444 31-Dec-2015 10:35
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First thing that sticks out in your configuration is you have stated the Dlink has obtained the information for the WAN link from the modem.

However, your screenshot makes it clear you have configured a static ip connection there instead.

You have assigned the IP 10.0.0.138, Which is also the Default gateway ip - and the IP of your modem. This is a ip conflict. Your telling the dlink the gateway is itself.

as @timmmay points out, your explanation of what all is going on is confusing.
Past DHCP doing its job, your router plays no part in network discovery (assuming there is no vlaning, isolation etc.)




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  Reply # 1459445 31-Dec-2015 10:43
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Sorry – stick to the facts – here goes;

My game is to have a local hi speed wired network for video streaming to several media centers and NAS's - and where necessary, connect any local device to the Internet.  Included is WiFi connectivity to cellphones for both local and internet use.

 

  • Internal house network using Cat6 cabling and network switches
  • Windows 10 WORKGROUP networking and Windows Discovery to identify WORKGROUP computers and devices to each other. SMB and FTP file transfers.
  • ADSL broadband internet via Thomson ST5 and LAN connection into house network
  • WiFi Router connected to the wired LAN via a network switch – this is for cellphone connections into LAN and Internet.
DHCP hosted via the ST5 on 192.168.1.254 - (192.168.1.64 > ...253). Internet is very fast and available for all local devices.

Local file transfer is very slow to initiate, often failing completely - network names are not available but ping and IP addressing work OK – my thinking being that maybe these local calls are firstly heading outside the local network (DNS calls ...?). 

DHCP hosted by the WiFi router (ST5 DHCP disabled) - all local LAN traffic operates normally. Computers and devices can see each other and no network hangs, lag or dropouts.  

The ST5 was connected in in two ways:
1) Via a LAN connection into a local LAN switch
2) Via the WAN connection in the WiFi router - it connects using 10.0.0.138 and notifies DNS servers. 

In either situation, the internet will not connect - I did see Sparks? DNS server addresses loaded into my laptop network card on one occasion .

Trust this is clearer!  

Rgds – Paul J

Thomson ST5 - Local Network - DHCP disabled. 



D-Link WiFi Router Connect (WAN) - these were loaded automatically on plugging the ST5 into the WAN. 



D-Link Auto generated routing table - this does not make any sense to me ...yet!





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  Reply # 1459474 31-Dec-2015 12:37
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If Dlink DHCP being used then it gives its own address as the gateway and with no working Internet on its WAN interface it is the gateway to no where so Internet access won't work. With the ST5 connected to Dlink WAN interface and the current IP assignment that implies an IP address conflict Internet access won't work either, i.e., you can't have 10.0.0.138 as IP on both the WAN interface of Dlink and LAN interface of ST5 (you haven't told us whether this is a DHCP assignment).

As for the network discovery read sections 1 through 46 of this article via links at bottom of page.
http://sourcedaddy.com/windows-7/improved-peer-networking.html




Ross

 

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  Reply # 1459574 31-Dec-2015 16:24
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Thanks for your reply on NY eve! 

The WAN assignment on the DLink is set by the ST5 modem - it uses 10.0.0.138 - rather than the 192.168.1.254 gateway when connected as a lan. The local lan is set by me to 192.168.1.nnn. 

I understood the WAN interface provides NAT services that route the two networks together for security?

Thanks for the link ...

PJ 

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  Reply # 1459579 31-Dec-2015 16:45
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Why are you using both the Dlink and Thompson devices? Can one not do the job by itself?

Can you describe the physical network setup? Basically, what is plugged into what, and how?

EDIT: and what model is the Dlink?

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  Reply # 1459583 31-Dec-2015 17:08
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I would ditch the Thomson ST5x6v6 not a quality unit.
Make your life simple and pick up a device that can do both jobs in one, assuming your working on a budget jump on your locally buy and sell FB page and get an old telecom/vodafone standard issue unit for cheap.
Alternatively phone up your ISP sign a 12/24 month contract and usually you'll get a new wifi router for free

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  Reply # 1459586 31-Dec-2015 17:17
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pjay: Thanks for your reply on NY eve! 

The WAN assignment on the DLink is set by the ST5 modem - it uses 10.0.0.138 - rather than the 192.168.1.254 gateway when connected as a lan. The local lan is set by me to 192.168.1.nnn. 

I understood the WAN interface provides NAT services that route the two networks together for security?

Thanks for the link ...

PJ 


As stated, it can never ever work if the two interfaces have the same IP address so maybe you would like to intervene and manually assign the Dlink WAN interface with an address that can work.

EDIT: It actually shows on the capture that the IP address assignment is static (rather than DHCP). At the very least you have to recheck these WAN settings.




Ross

 

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  Reply # 1460401 2-Jan-2016 21:52
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From 1511 on there are big problems with win 10 network discovery. There are numerous threads all over the place on this but have a look here:-

https://social.technet.microsoft.com/Forums/windowsserver/en-US/2131750e-d589-41f0-b6a3-1c7dac2361d9/cannot-connect-to-cifs-smb-samba-network-shares-shared-folders-in-windows-10-after-update



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  Reply # 1460520 3-Jan-2016 10:17
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Thank you for your replies and help - some comments ...

1) STATIC IP - D-Link - WAN - the settings shown, including 10.0.0.138, are automatically obtained from the ST5 Modem on plugging it in to the router - note that it is showing as 'connected' with all values filled. My presumption is that the ST5 modem expects to output a static IP on 10.0.0.138 to a WAN port and provides these values - I am assuming the DNS servers are Spark's? There are several other interface options on the D-Link WAN - PPoE, Dynamic DHCP, PPTP ... I did not set or change any ST5 values - those are as provided by the installer and I presume the then Telecom's network requirements. 

Happy to change the equipment but need to identify the issues to avoid a similar situation. 

2) the D-Link router does not allow addressing on the local LAN in the same range as the WAN port. 

3) I understand from a previously working setup similar to this on mobile broadband, that the router, via its WAN port  provides NAT services from 10.0.0.138 to 192.168.1.nnn via its routing table? 

4) Yes I have read and tinkered extensively re the Network Discovery issues with Win 10 - the best configuration is with a locally contained LAN and DHCP server. Using the ST5 modem as DHCP server on the same network results in lagging and intermittent local calling and file transfers which is where I started. 

Question - With the ST5 modem issuing DHCP via its 192.168.1.254 gateway:- if a local device makes a call to another local device on the LAN, is this call contained within the local LAN or is it sent to SPARK's DNS servers first?

Sketch: pse forgive my draughting ...

Click to see full size



 





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  Reply # 1460538 3-Jan-2016 10:58
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I'm still not sure what model Dlink device you are using, but presume it is a router of some description, not an access point.

From your diagram (very helpful!) it looks like the only reason for the Dlink is to provide WiFi.

If you connect through the WAN port, you will end up with a double NAT situation, putting WiFi devices in a different subnet to the wired devices, and for some LAN activity this will cause problems.

There are ways of connecting through a LAN port instead (which it looks like you are trying) which puts all devices in the same subnet, but they are a kludge at best, and not how things are designed to operate.

The best (technically) solution would be replace both devices with a single ADSL router that can also do WiFi - there's truckloads of these cheap on TradeMe that were issued by various ISPs. Alternatively, replace the Dlink with a proper WiFi access point, rather than trying to re-purpose a router into something it isn't.

You could keep trying to get the current hardware to do what you want, but it may not ever work 100% because you are asking it to do something that it wasn't designed for. If you want to try this, then connect the Dlink LAN port to your switch, give it a static LAN address of (say) 192.168.1.60 (same subnet, but outside the DHCP range). Make sure that the Dlink is not supplying addresses via DHCP, and delete the WAN config from it completely.

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  Reply # 1460541 3-Jan-2016 11:10
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RunningMan:

You could keep trying to get the current hardware to do what you want, but it may not ever work 100% because you are asking it to do something that it wasn't designed for. If you want to try this, then connect the Dlink LAN port to your switch, give it a static LAN address of (say) 192.168.1.60 (same subnet, but outside the DHCP range). Make sure that the Dlink is not supplying addresses via DHCP, and delete the WAN config from it completely.


You're just describing ops original setup, from which he made some unusual assumptions and basically broke things.




Ross

 

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  Reply # 1460546 3-Jan-2016 11:20
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Spyware:
RunningMan:

You could keep trying to get the current hardware to do what you want, but it may not ever work 100% because you are asking it to do something that it wasn't designed for. If you want to try this, then connect the Dlink LAN port to your switch, give it a static LAN address of (say) 192.168.1.60 (same subnet, but outside the DHCP range). Make sure that the Dlink is not supplying addresses via DHCP, and delete the WAN config from it completely.


You're just describing ops original setup, from which he made some unusual assumptions and basically broke things.


With the exception of the WAN config on the Dlink - currently it looks like it is showing as having a static IP address on the WAN port, and is probably trying to therefore route via the WAN - I was suggesting remove the WAN config altogether, and see if the Dlink will just work as a WiFi AP through the LAN port.

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  Reply # 1460552 3-Jan-2016 11:34
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pjay: Thank you for your replies and help - some comments ...

Question - With the ST5 modem issuing DHCP via its 192.168.1.254 gateway:- if a local device makes a call to another local device on the LAN, is this call contained within the local LAN or is it sent to SPARK's DNS servers first?



NO.

Neither of your two alternate ways of using the Dlink, i.e, as a DHCP server or a router, could work because of the reasons previously stated so you are really just creating further issues.

The ST5 isn't doing any routing in relation to the local LAN traffic so is very unlikely to be the cause of the problems.






Ross

 

Spark FibreMAX using Mikrotik CCR1009-8G-1S-1S+

 


Speed Test


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