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Topic # 198366 6-Jul-2016 10:45
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bought a new house, need to wire it up.  last house I did 2x 305m of cat6 and added a few here and there over the years.

 

This time I'll probably need 3x 305m box.  Looking at cat7a to future proof myself and would want to be able to run HDMI type signals over it.  I know its over kill for home use, but it would cost a heck of a lot more to redo in 10 years time than it would to do it now.

 

My biggest concern is running HDMI/1080p/4k video feeds over cat6.

 

anyone know where to buy 305m or similar length rolls of cat7a cable?  Dynamix only seem to have cat6a.

 

Don't need it for about 2 months, so slow shipping from china is fine.

 

 

 

Also anyone run 1080p over cat6 successfully?  Can you recommend a HDMI device to do this?  Wanting something that uses a single ethernet cable, I can't guarantee the cables will be the exact same length, which I believe is a requirement for those.


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  Reply # 1587004 6-Jul-2016 10:48
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Didn't even know cat 7a was a thing - isn't there a thread on here that says Cat 6a is just a marketing term and its actually just CAT6?

And if you looking for that much speed (I assume > Gigabit Ethernet?) why not look at fiber?




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  Reply # 1587016 6-Jul-2016 11:08
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timbosan:

 

Didn't even know cat 7a was a thing - isn't there a thread on here that says Cat 6a is just a marketing term and its actually just CAT6?

And if you looking for that much speed (I assume > Gigabit Ethernet?) why not look at fiber?

 

 

 

 

my understanding, is cat7a is shielded and can achieve better speeds.  didnt even think about fibre, but that would complicate things, since every device has an ethernet port, its easier to keep things cat6/7.  and I have no idea how to install fiber, cat6/7 is pretty basic todo.


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  Reply # 1587024 6-Jul-2016 11:16
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Just checked and I got it slightly wrong, 6e is the 'marketing' term, 6a is real:

http://serverfault.com/questions/419501/cat-6e-vs-cat-6a

A
nd just read up about cat 7a, did you know there are two standards for the connections?  IEC  60603-7-71 and IEC  61076-3-104

http://www.datacottage.com/nch/cat-6a-7a.htm#.V3w-vvnnZBc

And I found a new term "alien crosstalk", and that messy cables are 'better' than today cables in regards to crosstalk at these higher frequencies needed for 6A and 7A.




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  Reply # 1587027 6-Jul-2016 11:24
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timbosan:

 

Just checked and I got it slightly wrong, 6e is the 'marketing' term, 6a is real:

http://serverfault.com/questions/419501/cat-6e-vs-cat-6a

A
nd just read up about cat 7a, did you know there are two standards for the connections?  IEC  60603-7-71 and IEC  61076-3-104

http://www.datacottage.com/nch/cat-6a-7a.htm#.V3w-vvnnZBc

And I found a new term "alien crosstalk", and that messy cables are 'better' than today cables in regards to crosstalk at these higher frequencies needed for 6A and 7A.

 

 

 

 

yeah I saw that tricky connector, even if I ran cat7a cable in the walls and cat6a connectors on them that would future proof myself pretty well.  so much easier changing connectors than cable :)  I'll just get a empty patch panel plat that takes keystone jacks and connect the cables that way (much easier than a big patch panel that you wire into form my experience).  That way I can just use expensive cat7a connectors where and when needed and use the much cheaper cat6(a) connectors everywhere else.  Like I said, the reason for cat7a would be to support video signal over ethernet.  everything else is fine over cat6.

 

 

 

I'll likely be putting in a steam machine in the server rack, do HDMI over ethernet into 3 or 4 rooms and USB over ethernet (ordered some of these off ebay to see how well they actually work) so I can put controller receivers/bluetooth/keyboards in all those 3 or 4 rooms.   Ideally I would want 4k video over that at some point.  

 

I might run a PS4/Xbox to a couple of rooms, but that depends on if the controller reach that far, since its not easy to extend those controllers into other rooms.  But with xbox one now streaming to windows 10, my steam machine can handle that, and I can get PS TVs (hopefully, since theyre discontinued, I have one) for the other TVs (and I barely play PS4...).

 

My current house I just ran long HDMI cables/usb cables to multiple rooms and my xbox/ps4 just reach most rooms (except one).   but new house is 2 story and much larger.


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  Reply # 1587037 6-Jul-2016 11:42
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reven:I'll just get a empty patch panel plat that takes keystone jacks and connect the cables that way (much easier than a big patch panel that you wire into form my experience).

 

Wish now I'd read this before I'd done my house.  A loaded patch panel is fine if you're running all your cables as once.  But once they're run, adding a new one isn't easy 





Previously known as psycik

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Media:Chromecast v2, ATV4, Roku3, HDHomeRun Dual
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Host (Plex Server/Crashplan): 2x2TB, 2x3TB, 1x4TB using DriveBender, Samsung 850 evo 512 GB SSD, Hyper-V Server with 1xW10, 1xW2k8, 2xUbuntu 16.04 LTS, Crashplan, NextPVR channel for Plex,NextPVR Metadata Agent and Scanner for Plex




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  Reply # 1587038 6-Jul-2016 11:45
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davidcole:

 

reven:I'll just get a empty patch panel plat that takes keystone jacks and connect the cables that way (much easier than a big patch panel that you wire into form my experience).

 

Wish now I'd read this before I'd done my house.  A loaded patch panel is fine if you're running all your cables as once.  But once they're run, adding a new one isn't easy 

 

 

my first two patch panels were loaded, PITA to connect up on a ladder.  The 3rd one I got a empty one and just used keystone jacks.  For several cables I just had 30m etc cables and used keystone female/female plugs to avoid wiring.  Also I was able to connect RCA cables into the 3rd patch panel for ceiling speakers :)


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  Reply # 1587065 6-Jul-2016 12:42
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I still don't fully understand the need to run uncompressed video around a house - i used to, but now just don't see the point. Surely a "streaming box" is the answer for multiple displays. Still means you can store everything centrally and even manage centrally (ie Kodi with a remote sql server). Then all you need is a decent network to get the data around and really in a house Cat6 is good as gold for that.

 

But if you want something in that 'Cat7a' range, the cable you are looking for is 'screened, shielded twisted pair - S-STP' and then with a good thick guage (not sure what the AWG would be but probably in the 20-22 area?). But then you have to get expensive shielded RJ45 modules - last time I did a shielded cabling system (admittadely a few years ago now) an unloaded patch panel is your only option for shielded cable as the you simply used the shielded rj45 that you would for the station end.


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  Reply # 1587072 6-Jul-2016 13:01
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chevrolux:

 

I still don't fully understand the need to run uncompressed video around a house - i used to, but now just don't see the point. Surely a "streaming box" is the answer for multiple displays. Still means you can store everything centrally and even manage centrally (ie Kodi with a remote sql server). Then all you need is a decent network to get the data around and really in a house Cat6 is good as gold for that.

 

But if you want something in that 'Cat7a' range, the cable you are looking for is 'screened, shielded twisted pair - S-STP' and then with a good thick guage (not sure what the AWG would be but probably in the 20-22 area?). But then you have to get expensive shielded RJ45 modules - last time I did a shielded cabling system (admittadely a few years ago now) an unloaded patch panel is your only option for shielded cable as the you simply used the shielded rj45 that you would for the station end.

 

 

 

 

A streaming box with multiple displays probably can't run xbox - which reven seemed to be thinking about implementing.





Previously known as psycik

NextPVR: 
Gigabyte AMD A8 Brix --> Samsung LA46A650D via HDMI, NextPVR,
OpenHAB: ODroid C2 eMMC DriveOpenHAB with Aeotech ZWave Controller, Raspberry PI, Wemos D1 Mini, Zwave and Bluetooth LE Sensors
Media:Chromecast v2, ATV4, Roku3, HDHomeRun Dual
Windows 2012 
Host (Plex Server/Crashplan): 2x2TB, 2x3TB, 1x4TB using DriveBender, Samsung 850 evo 512 GB SSD, Hyper-V Server with 1xW10, 1xW2k8, 2xUbuntu 16.04 LTS, Crashplan, NextPVR channel for Plex,NextPVR Metadata Agent and Scanner for Plex




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  Reply # 1587073 6-Jul-2016 13:06
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exactly, its not about playing mkvs throughout the house, cat6 handles that just fine.  its about taking potentially a 4k resolution from a computer and displaying that on multiple screens.  HDMI might be the answer now, but in 10 years time will HDMI still be the standard? if so what version???  Seems to be more logical to do that via ethernet cables using a HDBaseT type device, so may as well use the absolute best ethernet cable available today, which is cat7a as far as im aware.

 

 

 

just can't find a place to really import it, thought someone would of done it before here.  


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  Reply # 1587074 6-Jul-2016 13:10
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davidcole:

 

chevrolux:

 

I still don't fully understand the need to run uncompressed video around a house - i used to, but now just don't see the point. Surely a "streaming box" is the answer for multiple displays. Still means you can store everything centrally and even manage centrally (ie Kodi with a remote sql server). Then all you need is a decent network to get the data around and really in a house Cat6 is good as gold for that.

 

But if you want something in that 'Cat7a' range, the cable you are looking for is 'screened, shielded twisted pair - S-STP' and then with a good thick guage (not sure what the AWG would be but probably in the 20-22 area?). But then you have to get expensive shielded RJ45 modules - last time I did a shielded cabling system (admittadely a few years ago now) an unloaded patch panel is your only option for shielded cable as the you simply used the shielded rj45 that you would for the station end.

 

 

 

 

A streaming box with multiple displays probably can't run xbox - which reven seemed to be thinking about implementing.

 

 

 

 

Sorry should have used different terms. I meant 'multiple viewing locations'. As in multiple TV's around the house. I guess if you wanted to have a central xbox then that could be the answer. But how cheap is an xbox these days? The cost of installing the shielded cabling and then the cost of the hdmi extending units may not weigh up to the simple answer of just buying another xbox.

 

Edit: Haha actually the answer is not that cheap - I am sure the old xbox 360's were selling for less than $300ish not long ago! Turns out the one's are a lot dearer haha.




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  Reply # 1587088 6-Jul-2016 13:14
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chevrolux:

 

davidcole:

 

chevrolux:

 

I still don't fully understand the need to run uncompressed video around a house - i used to, but now just don't see the point. Surely a "streaming box" is the answer for multiple displays. Still means you can store everything centrally and even manage centrally (ie Kodi with a remote sql server). Then all you need is a decent network to get the data around and really in a house Cat6 is good as gold for that.

 

But if you want something in that 'Cat7a' range, the cable you are looking for is 'screened, shielded twisted pair - S-STP' and then with a good thick guage (not sure what the AWG would be but probably in the 20-22 area?). But then you have to get expensive shielded RJ45 modules - last time I did a shielded cabling system (admittadely a few years ago now) an unloaded patch panel is your only option for shielded cable as the you simply used the shielded rj45 that you would for the station end.

 

 

 

 

A streaming box with multiple displays probably can't run xbox - which reven seemed to be thinking about implementing.

 

 

 

 

Sorry should have used different terms. I meant 'multiple viewing locations'. As in multiple TV's around the house. I guess if you wanted to have a central xbox then that could be the answer. But how cheap is an xbox these days? The cost of installing the shielded cabling and then the cost of the hdmi extending units may not weigh up to the simple answer of just buying another xbox.

 

 

well a GTX1080 will cost me around $1300 and Ill probably get 2 of them, and the cpu is around $500, so you're looking at about $3500-4000 for the gaming computer.  Putting $3500-4000 computers in 4 rooms doesnt make sense.  And what If I decide I want to add them to another room, its cheaper and easier to buy another HDBaseT reciever, a usb to ethernet adapter and a controller for each room than a gaming rig in every room.

 

One central location with all these devices, pumped throughout the house is the best solution.

 

 

 

back on topic though, anyone know a good place to buy cat7a cable?


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  Reply # 1587116 6-Jul-2016 13:59
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I have HDMI to 3 screens in my garage/workshop because you cant have the same content _in sync_ on multiple screens without doing it that way. The compressed HDMI over ethernet boxes I tried had noticible lag.

 

Also for gaming, the gamestreaming stuff on steam box has lag, the PS4 to PS TV box has lag. Unacceptable for any gaming beyond solatire.

 

 





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  Reply # 1587119 6-Jul-2016 14:02
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richms:

 

I have HDMI to 3 screens in my garage/workshop because you cant have the same content _in sync_ on multiple screens without doing it that way. The compressed HDMI over ethernet boxes I tried had noticible lag.

 

Also for gaming, the gamestreaming stuff on steam box has lag, the PS4 to PS TV box has lag. Unacceptable for any gaming beyond solatire.

 

 

 

 

 

 

im happy with the lag on PS4/PSTV, and the steamlink.  I dont do FPS, more action/rpg games, first person games i play are bioshocks etc, no COD or anything.  so im guessing the lag on hdmi to ethernet would be ok, but yeah, going to test in my current house via cat6 first.  just have to find a decent one.

 

 

 

finding cat7a cable is proving challenging, some on ebay but hard to tell the actual quality on ebay since you cant see reviews of the actual products, aliexpress has minium 50,000 metres etc or 100 boxes :)


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  Reply # 1587152 6-Jul-2016 14:30
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Im just making sure that I can get access to get whatever is new in place when it is needed. Hopefully high framerate high dynamic range 4k or better will work over a piece of coathanger wire by the time it is common, but it it will need cat-8 or fiber or whatever I will be able to pull it thru. For now the HDMI over cat6 and HDMI to 3GSDI boxes are doing well, but the SDI stuff does seem to change the colours slightly from desktop PC, it is fine for video sources like the fire TV.





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  Reply # 1587155 6-Jul-2016 14:33
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I've been looking at Gefen and Atlona HDBaseT extenders for 4k transmission over a single cat6. I haven't picked one up yet (because i'm cheap) but they appear to offer some good flexibility and future proofing. Might be worth a look for your needs. 


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