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Wannabe Geek


# 251598 2-Jul-2019 17:19
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Hello Everyone,

 

Longtime reader - first time poster! (be gentle!)

 

I have a unique situation I need to research and find an answer for, so I am hitting all you experts up for some advice. We think our only option for strong internet coverage in our little estate is to use the phone lines.

 

The situation is:

 

  • We have just had fibre installed.
  • We cannot get wifi to work consistently around our estate due to location, trees, etc.
  • Mesh won't work due to the villas being on different electricity circuits
  • There are 14 villas in our little estate that all have an individual phone line.
  • Each individual phone line connects back to a telephone junction box (old school type)
  • They are a CAT5 cable, and only using 2 wires, so the Orange & Green wires are free to use
  • I have an Electrician that can do the work needed in each villa to make an Ethernet jack/port  

My questions are;

 

     

  1. What sort of products are there that would help me connect each phone line to the Router?
  2. Does anyone know of an instance like this and can offer some advice?

 

I am not a Tech-guy but I understand the situation. I just don't know where to start looking, so any advice would be greatly received!


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  # 2268673 2-Jul-2019 18:11
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First question, do you still want the Villas to have the phone lines or would you be happy with just an internet connection?

 

 


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  # 2268675 2-Jul-2019 18:15
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What you would need to do is install a patch panel instead of the telephone junction box. You could then put an ethernet switch with at least 15 ports next to it, patch one port to each villa, and one back to your router.

If there is only one cable to each villa, and they need a phone service, then you can get a splitter that allows you to use two pairs for phone and two pairs for ethernet. That does limit you to 100Mbps ethernet though, which may not be an issue in this case. You would also need a second phone panel to patch through the phones.

If you have cat5 cable (as opposed to cat5e), then your speed may be limited to 100Mbps in any event, although you could probably get gigabit ethernet over shorter runs. Ethernet is also supposed to work only up 100 metres, and you may have issues beyond that.

With this setup, all the villas will be on the same network and able to "see" each other's computers, without extra configuration. Again, that may not be an issue.

I also understand there may be dangers in running copper ethernet connections between buildings with separate electrical switchboards, but someone else will need to comment on that.

 
 
 
 


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  # 2268692 2-Jul-2019 18:39
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HyperKezz:

 

  • Mesh won't work due to the villas being on different electricity circuits

 

I'm a bit confused at this bit. Wireless meshing (e.g. Amplifi, Orbi, et al) will work fine regardless of electricity circuits. Or were you thinking of powerline adapters?


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  # 2268725 2-Jul-2019 18:52
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Hi, the potential killer will be distance, you need to understand how far each of these villas are (cable length wise) apart. Maybe a bit of a diagram/map to help us understand better?

 

Cyril


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  # 2268726 2-Jul-2019 18:55
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So a couple of things come to mind...

 

- How long are the existing Cat5 runs? Remembering you will only do 100m reliably.

 

- How is the "internet" delivered in terms of accounts? Is there just a single account you all agree to pay to?

 

- If the above answer is 'just one account', how do you isolate each villa so they can't access things on other villa's networks? (think windows network discovery for example).

 

- Do you need to account for traffic usage? I doubt you do, but worth asking.

 

- And as above, do you still need phone lines for each villa?

 

 

 

If this was me doing it in a commercial situation, I would be looking at a "core" router, implementing PPPoE on the links out to the villas, a RADIUS server for user management, and a SIP phone system with call accounting for all the phone lines to the house.

 

Regardless, I tend to think, if you have to ask the question of how to do it, you probably shouldn't unless the goal is to learn as you go and everyone expects mistakes to happen.


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  # 2268743 2-Jul-2019 19:41
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Hi, so I take it we are talking about the village inn, which appears to be on a property that would not extend past the limits of 100m to any unit, but possibly a few could

 

In that case, you techically could just have the existing cabling reterminated on patch panels and outlets to provide a L2 ethernet network across the site. If you did encounter cable lengths in excess of 100m then I am sure a skilled cabler can sort out a mid way cabinet with a switch etc.

 

That deals with the simple connectivity aspect, you now need to deal with the access, authorisaton and accountablity AAA as mentioned by Chevolux. I presume you have an exisitng wireless system that has some measure of  AAA and this is just an attempt to better deliver it. Was it your intention to use wireless access points through out the property, or also allow cabled outlets, just staying with wireless with a wired backhaul is easier to manage imho.

 

Cyril


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  # 2268825 2-Jul-2019 20:40
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maybe post a picture of the site with where you want/need things. and include a scale.


 
 
 
 


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  # 2268848 2-Jul-2019 21:41
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Converting everything to Ethernet means only users with LAN ports eg PC/Mac would be able to use it, people with wifi won't i.e. ipad, phones etc.

 

As a thought is it possible to distribute some ethernet but use a few Access Ports around the estate and then just give everyone free wifi.


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  # 2268850 2-Jul-2019 21:47
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Assuming all are within the 100m limitation I'd be leaving the phone in place, splitting out the 2pr for Ethernet and putting something such as a UniFi AC Inwall AP in each villa running back to a central POE switch to power the AP. By keeping the analogue phone you do have a 100Mbps restriction but that's not really a real word limitation - you will also need to see how things are cabled in each villa and whether the cable is looped to multiple phone jacks.

 

If you want a cheaper solution you could opt for Ruckus and pick up a 2nd hand Zonedirector and new (but EOL) Ruckus AP's which are cheap as chips on eBay. Really is a project that needs somebody who knows what they're doing to do it right though.

 

 

 

 

 

 


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  # 2268852 2-Jul-2019 21:52
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If you are going to distribute a single Internet connection to the fourteen villas, then there are a number of potential fishhooks.
As examples,

 

  • If the occupant of a villa downloads something they ought not to - copyright, 'Objectionable' (legal term), etc. - as far as the outside world knows, it was you (or the person who is responsible for the single Internet connection) that did it. You would have to prove it was "Villa X".
  • Since the villas would be effectively on the same network (unless you set up a technically robust solution), it is possible that a clued-up villa occupant could access the others' PCs. If something bad happens, guess who the finger would point at?

You are, I think, effectively becoming "an ISP", and there are lots of things ISPs are legally required to do. Are you wanting to do that? Are you technically competent to do it?
IANAL, but you might want to talk to one?


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  # 2268863 2-Jul-2019 22:21
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Another option could be installing a VDSL DSLAM.




Chorus has spent $1.4 billion on making their xDSL broadband network faster and even more now as they are upgrading their rural Conklins. If your still stuck on ADSL or VDSL, why not spend $195 on a master filter install to make sure you are getting the most out of your connection?
I install - Naked DSL, DSL Master Splitters, VoIP, data cabling and general computer support for home and small business.
Rural Broadband RBI installer for Ultimate Broadband and Full Flavour

 

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  # 2270605 5-Jul-2019 16:33
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sbiddle:

 

Assuming all are within the 100m limitation I'd be leaving the phone in place, splitting out the 2pr for Ethernet and putting something such as a UniFi AC Inwall AP in each villa running back to a central POE switch to power the AP. By keeping the analogue phone you do have a 100Mbps restriction but that's not really a real word limitation - you will also need to see how things are cabled in each villa and whether the cable is looped to multiple phone jacks.

 

...

 

 

You would need all pairs present for 802.3af/at though wouldn't you? The OP really needs to give a little more info. A map would be nice. 

I like the VDSL DSLAM idea - know the stuff is affordable to buy off eBay/Ali Express and the likes but would really require someone with knowledge in that area to know what is actually required, what is junk and what isn't, etc etc. 


 

Is there potentially conduit between all the buildings? Could Fibre distribution be a possibility using something like Ubiquiti's U Fibre GPON equipment?


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  # 2270608 5-Jul-2019 16:42
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wratterus:

 

sbiddle:

 

Assuming all are within the 100m limitation I'd be leaving the phone in place, splitting out the 2pr for Ethernet and putting something such as a UniFi AC Inwall AP in each villa running back to a central POE switch to power the AP. By keeping the analogue phone you do have a 100Mbps restriction but that's not really a real word limitation - you will also need to see how things are cabled in each villa and whether the cable is looped to multiple phone jacks.

 

...

 

 

You would need all pairs present for 802.3af/at though wouldn't you? The OP really needs to give a little more info. A map would be nice. 

I like the VDSL DSLAM idea - know the stuff is affordable to buy off eBay/Ali Express and the likes but would really require someone with knowledge in that area to know what is actually required, what is junk and what isn't, etc etc. 


 

Is there potentially conduit between all the buildings? Could Fibre distribution be a possibility using something like Ubiquiti's U Fibre GPON equipment?

 

 

 

 

Yip huger amounts of unknowns, that's why the OP really needs to get an expert in. You can't expect to get a solution for something like this easily.

 

802.3af passive POE uses the data pairs for power so providing you have 2 pairs 1/2 & 3/6 for Ethernet you'll have power. If you want Gigabit passive you'll need the four pairs 1/2, 3/6, 4/5 and 7/8 pairs, likewise if you want active POE (such as UBNT 24v as an example) you'll also need the whole four pairs.

 

 


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  # 2270614 5-Jul-2019 17:07
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802.3af= active and the ubiquiti/mikrotik 15/24/48v = passive right?

Didn't know you could get 100mb 802.3af with two pairs though that's very handy to know.

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  # 2270620 5-Jul-2019 17:25
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Most 100 meg POE gear doesnt even have pins for the other 2 pairs in place connected to anything. You should be able to power over either set of data pairs and have it just work fine.

 

the 24V unifi stuff is passive and on the "spare" pairs.





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