New wifi needed, 1950s double story house. Input needed please.

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greminn

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#311599 30-Jan-2024 12:48

Hi There, we have a recently renovated 1950s timber frame, two story home with the top story being the main living space. I have Ethernet running to each end of the top story. We also run a Home Assistant-based smart home, with a few Shelly in wall modules dotted around + three cameras, two on the house (Ethernet), 1 on the garage (wifi) + wifi doorbell. Note everything else is Zigbee. We also have a single car, seperate garage that is close, but does not have Ethernet to it (oversight on my behalf there). I would like to get some good wifi coverage in both floors and the garage. Most of the users in the house have apple stuff. We are using a Edgerouter X as our fibre router.

Thoughts on a wifi mesh network using Ethernet as the backhaul for 2 of the units?

Would it be best to just dot these round all over the place?

Any input would be appreciated.

Simon

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#3188436 30-Jan-2024 14:11

Ethernet routed Mesh is probably the best option,

Where is the Fibre entry and initial router located... (GF?)

Any options to add a nearby AP that's ethernet fed back to it?

KiwiSurfer

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#3188437 30-Jan-2024 14:12

Netgear Orbi could be a good option. They support Ethernet backhaul I believe (which I haven't used) but also can do WiFi backhaul. The more expensive ones can do backhaul on different channels to the channels used by devices which improves performance which works well in our experience. But be warned the cheaper ones sadly seem not to do this. If you plan to do a hybrid Ethernet backhaul to some units and wifi backhaul to other units Orbi could work.

If you're confident enough the Ubiquiti wifi gear could be another option. Haven't used their year for a while though so can't speak to the current models. Last I used them they were great if Ethernet backhauled. They also support Wifi backhaul but I recall it not being very reliable.

greminn

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#3188440 30-Jan-2024 14:18

wellygary:

Ethernet routed Mesh is probably the best option,

Where is the Fibre entry and initial router located... (GF?)

Any options to add a nearby AP that's ethernet fed back to it?

Fibre has been routed to a comms box on the lower floor under our stairs. Has fibre ONT, edgerouter, switches, NAS, HA Server, Media Server, UPS, etc (and cooling!). No wifi there as not needed.

I have Ethernet to both ends of the top floor of the house with wall points next to power points. Not the garage tho, will need wifi backhaul to that. Could also get one in the centre of downstairs (which is where the stairwell is).

greminn

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#3188441 30-Jan-2024 14:21

KiwiSurfer:

Netgear Orbi could be a good option. They support Ethernet backhaul I believe (which I haven't used) but also can do WiFi backhaul. The more expensive ones can do backhaul on different channels to the channels used by devices which improves performance which works well in our experience. But be warned the cheaper ones sadly seem not to do this. If you plan to do a hybrid Ethernet backhaul to some units and wifi backhaul to other units Orbi could work.

If you're confident enough the Ubiquiti wifi gear could be another option. Haven't used their year for a while though so can't speak to the current models. Last I used them they were great if Ethernet backhauled. They also support Wifi backhaul but I recall it not being very reliable.

Thanks for that. The only issue i see with the Ubiquiti is that their points need to be ceiling mounted? That ain’t going to get even a star on the WAF. :)

mrgsm021

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#3188442 30-Jan-2024 14:23

+1 some sort of meshed wifi solution with Ethernet backhaul capability.

Had two Asus Zenwifi XT8 mesh units on AP mode with Ethernet backhaul (one unit on each floor) sitting behind a ER-X with One NZ Fibre Max, worked well but have since replaced ER-X with a Mikrotik RB750GR3.

KiwiSurfer

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#3188463 30-Jan-2024 15:24

greminn:

Thanks for that. The only issue i see with the Ubiquiti is that their points need to be ceiling mounted? That ain’t going to get even a star on the WAF. :)

Yes most of their gear do need to mounted horizonally (such as on a ceiling) for best performance. They can also go on the wall but I've found coverage suffers when you mount them vertically rather than horizonally. The antennas obviously optimised for going 'sideways' rather than 'down'. However if the coverage area is not that big then it might be OK to just put them on top of cupboards/shelf/etc -- that way it's still horizinally polarised but out of the way.

Thats one nice thing about Orbi, it's easy enough to find a corner and just put it there, perhaps next to a pot plant. It doesn't look too bad IMHO. :)

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greminn

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#3188466 30-Jan-2024 15:26

KiwiSurfer:

Yes most of their gear do need to mounted horizonally (such as on a ceiling) for best performance. They can also go on the wall but I've found coverage suffers when you mount them vertically rather than horizonally. The antennas obviously optimised for going 'sideways' rather than 'down'. However if the coverage area is not that big then it might be OK to just put them on top of cupboards/shelf/etc -- that way it's still horizinally polarised but out of the way.

Yea - im guessing that you cant mount them above the ceiling, even if it’s just sitting on top of the ceiling gib?

froob

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#3188679 30-Jan-2024 23:16

There are Unifi models with different form factors, if you want to go with that option where ceiling mounting isn’t practicable.

The U6 Mesh is a desktop model, which is similar in size and shape to a thin soft drink can.

There is also an “in wall” model, which replaces a data outlet and screws into the flush box in the wall.

I have set up the older versions of each of these at other people’s houses, and they have been running for years without issue. They are quite expensive compared to the lower-end ceiling models however.

I have the more basic Unifi U6-Lite at my own house, and it has mostly been trouble free (and am also still running an ER-X). I wouldn’t put any of the units actually up in the ceiling cavity, mainly because of the heat in that space.

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Goosey

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#3188699 31-Jan-2024 07:18

Can you easily access the upper level roof space where the Ethernet runs are?

Did you run the Ethernet into the upper level ceiling space or just terminate at the wall from the lower floor run?
- you could consider pulling “up” the cable and thus you can ceiling mount chosen appropriate AP.

MikeAqua

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#3188716 31-Jan-2024 08:31

We have the TP Link Deco M5 mesh system. It's serving us nicely in a long skinny brick house, where performance from a standard WiFi router was subpar. Wr have one M5 serving as the router and base WiFi unit, and then two others as WiFi mesh nodes.

The M5 comes with an inbuilt IoT network. I haven't used this aspect of it but, I thought it worth mentioning as you have a bunch of automation components.

Mike

PJ48

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#3189805 3-Feb-2024 09:43

We have Unifi Gen 6 APs dotted around, and when I was setting them up I experimented with ceiling mount vs high wall mount and there was minimal difference in coverage - the key with any AP is to mount it as high as possible above all furniture and obstructions. One of the problems with any of the "nice looking" Mesh systems is that they are designed to be tucked away low down in a room on bits of furniture, and you just can't negate the physics of how wifi works.

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nzkc

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#3189821 3-Feb-2024 10:20

greminn:

Thanks for that. The only issue i see with the Ubiquiti is that their points need to be ceiling mounted? That ain’t going to get even a star on the WAF. :)

Is that confirmed with her? I was worried about this and in fairness to TheWife her view was "its like a bigger smoke alarm... thats fine".

greminn

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#3189834 3-Feb-2024 11:57

Thanks for all the feedback. And yep confirmed we are "not" having ceiling mounted wifi :D

I did see this at PB Tech today, looks like it's a pretty good price?

https://www.pbtech.co.nz/product/NETAS6542/ASUS-ZenWiFi-XD6S-Dual-Band-AX5400-Whole-Home-Mesh

Or something like this - as I actually need 3 units:

https://www.pbtech.co.nz/product/NETAS62303/ASUS-ZenWiFi-XD5-Dual-Band-AX3000-Whole-Home-Mesh

KiwiSurfer

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#3190041 3-Feb-2024 19:16

PJ48:

We have Unifi Gen 6 APs dotted around, and when I was setting them up I experimented with ceiling mount vs high wall mount and there was minimal difference in coverage - the key with any AP is to mount it as high as possible above all furniture and obstructions. One of the problems with any of the "nice looking" Mesh systems is that they are designed to be tucked away low down in a room on bits of furniture, and you just can't negate the physics of how wifi works.

My experience with the earlier gen APs was that high wall mount provided good coverage along the side/axis it was mounted (makes sense as the antennas radiate in that direction) but dropped off if you go directly out from the front/back of the AP e.g. if wall mounted on a north facing wall and you walk north away from the AP (but fine if you go e.g. west/east). Was bad enough that when I switched from high wall mount to putting the AP on top of a cabinet we saw a significant improvement on a north-facing AP in the rooms directly north of the AP. YMMV.

RunningMan

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#3190043 3-Feb-2024 19:31

@KiwiSurfer you can check the radiation pattern for Unifi APs to establish the best orientation for coverage. A number of manufacturers make this info available.

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