Shelly Wifi smart home devices now with AU/NZ Certification

Forums › Gadgets, robotics, home automation, electronics (including wearables) › Shelly Wifi smart home devices now with AU/NZ Certification

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#2649346 8-Feb-2021 09:32

nickb800:

Yep those iconic switches are a good momentary switch to go with the Shelly's. Comes with an LED to gently lluminate the switch when the circuit is on

Thanks. The PDL catalogues are terrible!

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SumnerBoy

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#2657159 15-Feb-2021 22:08

Anyone got hold of one of the new Shelly 4Pro (4 relay DIN mounted module) or know anything about them?

https://shellystore.co.uk/product/shelly-4pro

They look like a great little device for building a total-house lighting controller in a new build.

My plan would be to mount a bank of these in my distribution board, with each lighting circuit wired up to an individual relay. Then wire CAT6 to each physical light switch and connect these back to some kind of "lighting controller" (as seen on Superhouse.tv for anyone familiar with Jon Oxer and his stuff). This lighting controller would be an Arduino which detects the switch events and publishes MQTT messages. A 3rd system, either NodeRED or openHAB or Home Assistant would listen for those MQTT messages and then turn on the required relay (via MQTT again).

I realise there are a lot of moving parts and this design is not set in stone, but it would provide maximum flexibility and control, and allow for full automation of all lights in the house.

A few problems I can see;

1. if the lighting controller or logic system goes down, all lighting is borked

2. can't do dimming

3. what happens when I sell the house...

EDIT: just realised these modules have an input for a physical switch - so I could wire up a bank of hard wired switches next to the distribution board for manual overrides or disaster-recovery situations...

shanes

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#2657196 15-Feb-2021 22:50

SumnerBoy:

Anyone got hold of one of the new Shelly 4Pro (4 relay DIN mounted module) or know anything about them?

https://shellystore.co.uk/product/shelly-4pro

They look like a great little device for building a total-house lighting controller in a new build.

My plan would be to mount a bank of these in my distribution board, with each lighting circuit wired up to an individual relay. Then wire CAT6 to each physical light switch and connect these back to some kind of "lighting controller" (as seen on Superhouse.tv for anyone familiar with Jon Oxer and his stuff). This lighting controller would be an Arduino which detects the switch events and publishes MQTT messages. A 3rd system, either NodeRED or openHAB or Home Assistant would listen for those MQTT messages and then turn on the required relay (via MQTT again).

I realise there are a lot of moving parts and this design is not set in stone, but it would provide maximum flexibility and control, and allow for full automation of all lights in the house.

A few problems I can see;

1. if the lighting controller or logic system goes down, all lighting is borked

2. can't do dimming

3. what happens when I sell the house...

EDIT: just realised these modules have an input for a physical switch - so I could wire up a bank of hard wired switches next to the distribution board for manual overrides or disaster-recovery situations...

You could wire all the switches back to the distribution board in normal 1mm tps, maybe the red/white/blue variant, use that to feed the "controller". If you move house and remove all the HA gear then it could just be wired for normal switching.

chevrolux

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#2657274 16-Feb-2021 08:27

SumnerBoy:

I realise there are a lot of moving parts

That would be my biggest concern. I tend to think the biggest draw with Shelly is the suuuuuper simple Home Assistant integration - its just so dam good. Then you add Node-RED to HA and can do literally anything from there in terms of automations and linking to different systems.

But the 4Pro, my thoughts would be getting a sparky in NZ to wire it how you want would be the biggest hurdle. With the price of the 1, 2.5 and dimmer (even from Futures the dimmer is only $50 NZD, so a third that of a z-wave option), my opinion is just stick with them installed behind wall plates and you have just as much flexibility without the hassle of a VERY custom wiring solution.

SumnerBoy

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#2657298 16-Feb-2021 09:09

@shanes - I did consider that - but the idea of running a single CAT6 to each flushbox and being able to handle up to 4 switches on a single cable really appeals! But it is a good solution for the re-wire-and-sell problem.

@chevrolux - yeah i am torn - I agree with almost everything you are saying - but i really do think there is scope here to "do it better" - which is often met with resistance from traditional tradesmen of course. If something better than the 4Pro came along it would be easy to retrofit, or to change the switching mechs, or lighting controller, or logic unit - everything would just be plug and play. But with traditional wiring each switch is tied to a single lighting circuit and that can never change.

I am still investigating how this might work - hence my query about whether anyone had used the 4Pro yet - it seems like something pretty new. If only there was a hard-wired version that would be absolutely perfect...

slip

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#2657300 16-Feb-2021 09:15

It's not certified for use in NZ so nobody should be using it at the moment.

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SumnerBoy

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#2657301 16-Feb-2021 09:16

But the other shelly devices are?

chevrolux

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#2657302 16-Feb-2021 09:17

I suppose what you are proposing isn't all that different to a C-Bus system. All 230V wiring is taken back to central relays on the distribution board, and then cat5e is run to all the wall plates around the place.

My main concern would just be custom built, arduino-based units and all that - I feel that totally defeats the purpose of the Shelly's.

Perhaps the 4Pro, mixed with Shelly i3's behind the wall plates????? That could actually be a pretty awesome combo for mega flexibility.

slip

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#2657307 16-Feb-2021 09:19

SumnerBoy:

But the other shelly devices are?

Some are. From memory I think so far its the 1, 1PM, 2.5 and Dimmer. You can find the documents on their website under the knowledge base for each device.

SumnerBoy

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#2657310 16-Feb-2021 09:23

Yeah that is kind of what I am thinking - ideally the 4Pro would be a hard-wired DIN mounted array of relays - having to rely on WiFi is something I would like to avoid - but they are pretty cheap, have the right form-factor, and provide native MQTT support, so tick a lot of boxes.

As for the switches, I hadn't come across the i3 before. So in theory I could just wire all the switches back to the distribution board and have a bank of i3s. Then the logic engine sits between the i3s and the 4Pros. Or, for resell i can either program the i3s to switch the relays (i.e. remove the logic engine bit), or just hard wire the switches to the 4Pro inputs - removing the i3s altogether...kind of what Shane was suggesting.

SumnerBoy

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#2657311 16-Feb-2021 09:24

slip:

Some are. From memory I think so far its the 1, 1PM, 2.5 and Dimmer. You can find the documents on their website under the knowledge base for each device.

Right - thanks - I would imagine the 4Pro won't be far away from certification then? It seems like it has only just been released worldwide.

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SirHumphreyAppleby

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#2657334 16-Feb-2021 09:48

SumnerBoy:

Yeah that is kind of what I am thinking - ideally the 4Pro would be a hard-wired DIN mounted array of relays - having to rely on WiFi is something I would like to avoid - but they are pretty cheap, have the right form-factor, and provide native MQTT support, so tick a lot of boxes.

Sounds like you might be interested in something more along the lines of what I'm planning on doing. See https://www.geekzone.co.nz/forums.asp?forumid=73&topicid=270517

Basically, I want to use DIN relays to control lights using GPIO. I've gone down the path of writing my own MQTT implementation (so I can support DMX and other protocols as well), but a quick and dirty solution might be to use something like the built-in remote GPIO feature of Raspbian. Without looking, I'm almost 100% certain there will be support for that in common automation tools.

I was intending to use Shellies as a retrofitted solution now that they're certified, however, my electrician wasn't willing to install them without a SDoC. I have since been in contact with Worksafe and confirmed that any reasonable documentation used to can be used by the electrical worker to determine the safety of an item and in the completion of a CoC, and mitigate the risk to themselves should the item subsequently prove unsafe.

SumnerBoy

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#2657379 16-Feb-2021 10:59

Good to know, thanks @SirHumphreyAppleby. Interesting thread you had over there. How is your system progressing?

Beccara

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#2657405 16-Feb-2021 11:33

Nice to see some kit getting cert'ed in NZ, last time i looked into zwave stuff like 10 years ago it was all cowboy land. Between this and the Deta Grid stuff that you can FW flash theres a ton of options now

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SirHumphreyAppleby

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#2657406 16-Feb-2021 11:34

SumnerBoy:

Good to know, thanks @SirHumphreyAppleby. Interesting thread you had over there. How is your system progressing?

My system isn't really suited to retrofitting, so once the Shelly was certified I stopped looking at the mains side of things. All the core functionality I require is there and is currently 'in production', running my alarm system, ready for more widespread deployment when I do a clean build.

I have another project, implementing a scripted DMX language, which will likely be added to the Pi client (using libusb, so again, not tied to specific hardware). At the same time I will probably remove the dependency on NodeRED for logic, and implement the entire system in C (like my old alarm system used to be!).

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