Solenoid valve on incoming water main

Forums › Gadgets, robotics, home automation, electronics (including wearables) › Solenoid valve on incoming water main - anyone done it?

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SumnerBoy

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#2915587 18-May-2022 14:19

DonH:

Why stainless steel? The tray should be dry under normal conditions. Ordinary galvanised steel would be enough. It's a good idea though. The tray under my hot water cylinder certainly did its job when the cylinder corroded through.

Yeah you are probably right. Might get them priced up in galv and see if that makes it much cheaper (I am sure it will). Just like the idea of s/s - longevity and not having to worry about them rusting out in 10yrs etc.

mdf:

Floor drains in potentially affected rooms are another option to address (or at least mitigate the effects of) this.

Floor drains are not really an option as we have timber floors so the whole goal is to try and keep water off as much as possible. And trying to get fall etc would be non-trivial.

But for tiled areas it would be a no-brainer.

mdf

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#2915589 18-May-2022 14:22

Stainless looks way better than galv IMHO. Esp if it is sitting under a stainless fridge or washing machine. I'd look at powder coated (e.g. colour steel) in a neutral colour before galvanised for indoors. Even aluminium might be an option; it wouldn't need any structural strength I guess?

SumnerBoy

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#2915590 18-May-2022 14:25

Nope will be sitting flat on a hard floor so no strength needed at all. I think in the interests of doing it right the first time, s/s is probably the way to go.

Handle9

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#2915818 18-May-2022 23:29

You want a ball or butterfly valve with a 3 position (drive open / drive closed) actuator. Usually you use a damper actuator for this. You can get 220VAC or 24VAC, just make sure you get a valve rated for open systems.

If you have a KNX network already you could use a KNX actuator but that's overkill IMO.

Handle9

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#2915821 18-May-2022 23:32

nickb800:

Assuming your house is automated up the wazoo already, you'll want to add a rule that turns off power to the hot water cylinder when the incoming water supply is stopped.

Back to the valve issue, I suspect it will be far cheaper to get a bog standard ball valve (i.e. which takes a 90 degree movement to turn on or off) and control with a linear actuator. Perhaps couple with a flow meter to verify that it's worked as intended

Why would you use a linear (push-pull) actuator? You want a rotary actuator for a ball valve. Damper actuators are usually usued for small ball valves.

MikeAqua

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#2915870 19-May-2022 09:03

pih:

I thing most fluid solenoids are actually strictly servo actuated ball valves. But I've only looked into it a little.

Ball valves are prone to sticking if they sit unmoved for a long time. You might want to set up a regular routine to close and open the valve a few times in succession.

Mike

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nickb800

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#2915914 19-May-2022 11:21

Handle9:

nickb800:

Assuming your house is automated up the wazoo already, you'll want to add a rule that turns off power to the hot water cylinder when the incoming water supply is stopped.

Back to the valve issue, I suspect it will be far cheaper to get a bog standard ball valve (i.e. which takes a 90 degree movement to turn on or off) and control with a linear actuator. Perhaps couple with a flow meter to verify that it's worked as intended

Why would you use a linear (push-pull) actuator? You want a rotary actuator for a ball valve. Damper actuators are usually usued for small ball valves.

I thought a linear actuator would be easier/cheaper to get a hold of, and easier to attach to the ball valve handle (just drill a hole in the end of the handle and bolt through). I'm sure a rotary actuator would be more efficient and appropriate for driving a ball valve, but thought the process of mounting and connecting it to a random ball valve might be a bit trickier for DIY

SumnerBoy

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#2916066 19-May-2022 20:32

Handle9:

You want a ball or butterfly valve with a 3 position (drive open / drive closed) actuator. Usually you use a damper actuator for this. You can get 220VAC or 24VAC, just make sure you get a valve rated for open systems.

If you have a KNX network already you could use a KNX actuator but that's overkill IMO.

Do you have a link to an example of what you mean?

tripper1000

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#2917650 23-May-2022 14:57

pih: I'm also interested in solutions to this. Being on tank water has me nervous that one day I'll come home and find 30kL of water in the garden, or worse, house. And nothing left to wash the sweat off my brow.

@pih - for the people on tank water looking for such a safety system, there are pumps available now that have an electronic safety system that not only stops the pump burning-out from running dry, but also stops them running continuously and pumping out all your tank water. They typically have a max continuous run time of 20 minutes, so if you leave the hose on, burst a pipe or the livestock damage a ball-cock in the water trough, after 20 minutes (or similar such pre-configured time), the pump errors-out and shuts down until you reset it.

I had a friend upgrade after a water loss incident. He also found it useful for teenagers who took excessively long showers.

Handle9

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#2917652 23-May-2022 15:05

SumnerBoy:
Handle9:

You want a ball or butterfly valve with a 3 position (drive open / drive closed) actuator. Usually you use a damper actuator for this. You can get 220VAC or 24VAC, just make sure you get a valve rated for open systems.

If you have a KNX network already you could use a KNX actuator but that's overkill IMO.

Do you have a link to an example of what you mean?

Sorry, forgot to reply. These are designed for your application. There’s plenty of alternatives.

https://www.belimo.com/ch/en_GB/products/valves/product-documentation/potable-water-valves.html

Ge0rge

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#2917719 23-May-2022 18:55

tripper1000:
pih: I'm also interested in solutions to this. Being on tank water has me nervous that one day I'll come home and find 30kL of water in the garden, or worse, house. And nothing left to wash the sweat off my brow.

@pih - for the people on tank water looking for such a safety system, there are pumps available now that have an electronic safety system that not only stops the pump burning-out from running dry, but also stops them running continuously and pumping out all your tank water. They typically have a max continuous run time of 20 minutes, so if you leave the hose on, burst a pipe or the livestock damage a ball-cock in the water trough, after 20 minutes (or similar such pre-configured time), the pump errors-out and shuts down until you reset it.

I had a friend upgrade after a water loss incident. He also found it useful for teenagers who took excessively long showers.

I've put a Shelly 1 PM before my water pump. As it can sense the increased current draw when running, I have HA monitor it and turn it off after 20 minutes of run time. Manual reset via the HA app.

I've also got it set to turn the pump off 5 minutes after everyone leaves the property, after first checking the dishwasher and washing machine aren't drawing any extra current above standby (via their own PMs) to indicate they are running and will need water. It keeps checking every 15 minutes until only standby current is being drawn, and the shuts the pump off.
HA turns the pump on again as soon as someone arrives hone. From an occupant's perspective, it's seamless. Except Miss 16 - she knows when shes been in the shower too long...

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zenourn

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#2917966 24-May-2022 13:43

After a couple of leaks (wash basin hose corroded and burst, slow HW leak) I set an auto shutoff at home using one of these:

https://shop.yosmart.com/products/smart-water-valve-controller-with-3-4-inch-motorized-ball-valve-hub-required

Requires a hub and the sensors, I got 8 sensors in total to cover everywhere:

https://shop.yosmart.com/products/4-leak-sensors-1-hub

Works really well. Have our own well and our pump shed is quite far from the house and is actually rather cool being able to turn water on/off from phone when doing anything. Much better than just cutting off power to pump as cuts out pressure tank so instant reduction of pressure.

nickb800

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#2921661 2-Jun-2022 06:28

Should have thought about this earlier, but what about the Shelly gas valve manipulator on a ball valve

https://shop.shelly.cloud/shelly-gas-addon-manipulator-wifi-smart-home-automation

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